Quote of the Day

[LS_8750]

Engineers to be more exact.

[mpallamary]

Wish you could join us.

[Mr. Smith]

Just a Quote

Those who can;WILL, those who criticize; CAN NOT.



Father

[Mr. Smith]

those who can, do. those who cannot, criticize

that's better

[Peter Ehlert]

Just a Quote

Those who can;WILL, those who criticize; CAN NOT.



Father

those who can, do. those who cannot, criticize

that's better

both work for me

[William Magee]

Apparently we're not talking about those running for president?

[Peter Ehlert]

Run Forest Run

[Mr. Smith]

Thats a good one Magee

[David Kendall]

These are great days we're living, bros. We are jolly green giants, walking the Earth with guns. These people we wasted here today are the finest human beings we will ever know. After we rotate back to the world, we're gonna miss not having anyone around that's worth shooting.

[Mr. Smith]

“If we can confiscate 8% from every dollar spent and charge protection fees for all business we will be rich beyond our wildest dreams.”

American Gangster.

[Steve Martin]

"Don't think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed"

- Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Steve Martin]

...The surveyor must therefore use extreme caution in adopting local points of control. These may range from authentic perpetuations of original corners down to marks which were never intended to be more than approximations. When a local reestablishment of a lost corner has been made by proper methods without gross error and has been officially recorded, it will ordinarily be acceptable. Monuments of unknown origin must be judged on their own merits, but they should never be rejected out of hand without careful study. The age and the degree to which a local corner has been relied on by all affected landowners may lead to its adoption as the best remaining evidence of the position of the original corner. The surveyor must consider all these factors. However, he cannot abandon the record of the original survey in favor of an indiscriminate adoption of points not reconcilable with it.

- BLM 1973 Manual 6-28

[Steve Martin]

Junior–Senior Corners
7-23. This situation exists where one set of corners was established for one side of the line, and a second set of corners was established for the other side of the same line in the course of a later resurvey or retracement.

The line is regarded as having been fixed in position by the senior survey and subsequent dependent resurveys or retracements. If both sets of corners are recovered, a junior survey, if it was established in the course of an obvious careful resurvey or retracement, reporting the most recent measurement of the line, will be used for alinement of the line and for control in restoring a lost senior corner of the line.

7-24. This procedure is not advisable where the junior corner was not established by an obvious careful resurvey or retracement, evidenced by its recovery far off line. That condition can only be shown by retracing enough of the line to determine its bearing. Where there has been extensive loss of corners, particularly the senior corners, the existent junior corners may constitute the best available evidence of the line itself. In such a case the junior corners will exercise control for both measurement and alinement.

7-25. Restorations of lost corners on a junior-senior line are controlled by the regular corners. These include the corners that were originally established by measurement along the line and other corners that have been established in an obvious careful resurvey or retracement along the line. A lost junior corner will be reestablished on the line by using single proportionate measurement between the nearest regular corners to the right and left of the lost corner. The position of a restored junior corner should be verified by a retracement of the line to the next original junior corner in each direction.

7-26. In some older surveys, the policy was to establish junior corners without a careful retracement of the senior line. In these cases, a recovered junior corner not actually located on the line that it was intended should not control the line for measurement or alinement. The new junior corner will be positioned in a cardinal direction, north or south on a latitudinal line, or, east or west on a meridional line, from the original junior corner onto the line intended. These new junior corners are established after a retracement of the line.

7-30. A junior corner established without a retracement of the senior line ordinarily is not used as a control corner in restoring a lost senior corner. However, where an obviously careful retracement of the senior line has been made and the field notes state clearly that new monuments were set on the line, the monuments become the best available evidence of the position of the senior line. In such a case the junior corners will exercise control for both measurement and alinement of the line to the same extent as closing corners (section 7-41).

7-31. A different problem is where the record tie from a junior corner to a corner of the senior line is fictitious, grossly in error, or in some way irreconcilable. If the junior corner in such a case is recovered, it should normally control the proportions along the junior line regardless of its disagreement with the record. If there is no evidence whatever of the junior corner, and ample proof that the retracement of the senior line was not made as called for in the field notes, the junior corner should not be restored without verifying the nearest authentic junior corners in each direction. The restoration should then be made by the method most nearly in harmony with the official plat(s). No general rule can be advanced. The procedure to be adopted will have official sanction prior to remonumentation.

2009 BLM Manual

[Lee Hixson]

"It seems to me what is called for is an exquisite balance between two conflicting needs: the most skeptical scrutiny of all hypotheses that are served up to us and at the same time a great openness to new ideas. If you are only skeptical, then no new ideas make it through to you. On the other hand, if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish useful ideas from the worthless ones. If all ideas have equal validity then you are lost, because then, it seems to me, no ideas have any validity at all." Carl Sagan

[Steve Martin]

Title v. Location

One of the many epiphanies that I have had in my surveying career, post law school, was the realization that the title to property and the actual location of that property on the ground were not necessarily the same. I had, of course, been exposed to the idea but the deeper meaning and true understanding that the determination of any boundary problem is a mixed question of law and fact had eluded me. “What are the boundaries is a question of law, and where the boundaries are is a question of fact.”{citation} It’s a two-part question for crying out loud! That was the epiphany.

This is the epiphany that many surveyors, lawyers and even judges have yet to experience. In my mind this is one of the reasons judges do not want boundary dispute cases,{citation} because the title v. location dilemma requires one to wrap their brain around the idea that deeds do not necessarily describe the property, but only provide the means for identification. In many cases extrinsic evidence, such as parol evidence, must to be considered and evaluated in order to identify the property that was meant to be conveyed.

“It is not the office of a description to identify the premises, but to furnish the means by which they can be identified. Parol evidence is, and must of necessity be, always admissible to identify the property described in and conveyed by a deed, to ascertain to what property the particulars of description in the deed apply.” {citation}

Jeff Lucas POB 8-6-2017
http://www.pobonline.com/articles/10103 ... -surveying

[David Kendall]

“Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one.” Voltaire

[sako]

When I was studying surveying in Germany, one of German classmates used to say: "Nichts is besser als Vermesser"

[Dave Karoly, PLS]

The Lucas article is very good this month (quoted by Steve Martin).

The first edition of Evidence and Procedures contains some information that is just, simply put, as bluntly as possible, incorrect.

First, Experts in California were already permitted to give opinion testimony on the ultimate issue of fact in the case, E&P says they can't which was incorrect even then. The other incorrect information that has been passed along to this day is a misunderstanding of the Parol Evidence Rule which generally, for our purposes, only applies to title. It is given in E&P that if the description is unambiguous then extrinsic evidence can't be resorted to. This is an inaccurate or incomplete rendering of the rule. One of the major exceptions to the Parol Evidence Rule is that extrinsic evidence necessary to apply the Deed Contract to the subject matter (boundary location of the property) is allowed and, in most cases, necessary.

The restriction on parol and extrinsic evidence applies to title questions which are usually questions of law. Parol and extrinsic evidence is almost always necessary in location questions which are mostly questions of fact.

What I am not saying is you have to accept the first goat stake you trip over (one of the usual straw man arguments). Relevant evidence is still necessary. We found a 3/4" iron pipe sticking up 5' with some odd numbers stamped on it and a bearing tree tag nearby marked for a 1/16th corner. There is no other information available as to who set it, why, what, when, where, it may just be a CFI point (certified forest inventory) so that is insufficient to disregard the calculated point about 12' away. I haven't checked with the County Surveyor yet, however, have to finish security training this morning.

[David Kendall]

"Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone."

- Paul - ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭4:6‬‬

[David Kendall]

“Good leadership comes from people who have penetrated their own inner darkness and arrived at the place where we are at one with one another, people who can lead the rest of us to a place of ‘hidden wholeness’ because they have been there and know the way” Parker Palmer

[RAM]

"my Goal to not to be better than anyone else, but to be better than I used to be."

Dr. Wayne W. Dyer

[RAM]

"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren’t used to an environment where excellence is expected."
Steve Jobs

[Tom Herrin]

“As to methods, there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”

Harrington Emerson

[mpallamary]

“Look kid, if you ever expect to be an engineer, learn to give specific, accurate answers with all the information”

Crew Chief to Father Knows Best daughter in 1956 episode.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECJBxZOVLLY

[leevining209]

To be accurate, Mike, the crew chief says that line to the boy that he is trying to pump for information about where Betty lives, not Betty.