Property lines in Metaverse?

[CBarrett]

Yes, it may be a bit of a far fetched idea, and y'all might look at me like I have three heads, but the values are going up... Emerging technologies.

Discuss....

[CBarrett]

What if google decides to get more detailed with google earth concept on a metaverse type platform and it starts including 'cadastral records'???

[LS_8750]

Google Earth used to show parcel lines, then stopped.
I think the platform will envelop as much as it can, including land boundary records.

[Peter Ehlert]

Electronic tax maps... AKA public GIS.

Nothing new here, move along

[CBarrett]

Google Earth used to show parcel lines, then stopped.
I think the platform will envelop as much as it can, including land boundary records.

So we just stand with our hands in out pockets and whistle while the technology boat is sailing away?

[LS_8750]

We are going to be using hand held laser scanners and documenting lines of occupation and tying out and placing monuments and creating a virtual reality and periodically updating that virtual system. Makes you wonder about 8726(a)(6) doesn't it.......

[CBarrett]

So I have done a little bit more researching on digital twinning technologies.
Many facilities are getting into creating and setting up sensors to create real time digital twins.
In next 10 to 15 years, real time digital twinning will be replacing static GIS systems. That's mountains and mountains of Topo, literally (including building interiors) and underground facilities.

What do we need to do to not miss out on this technology?

We are experts in measuring the land and features affixed to it, and not just high precision measurements required for geodetic control or for property boundaries.

We are experts in measuring the land and features affixed to it.

[bryanmundia]

We are experts in measuring the land and features affixed to it.

Connie,

I think with the way technology is progressing we really aren't the "experts" in measuring the land and the features affixed to it. Instead, we are the experts in understanding measurement data and the validity of said measurement data. A seasoned contractor can go out and measure a building footprint to the nearest 1/16" without a blink of any eye. But does said contractor understand that he needs to correct his tape for sag, tension and temperature in order for the building footprint to close? Probably not.

Instead, we are the professional that understands the difference between a sub 1cm control network and an RTK/RTN network and what measurements can be derived from each. Anyone can go out and measure and get pretty good results now a day with some pretty inexpensive equipment. If you don't believe me, take a look at this product: https://spike.ikegps.com/ or at apps such as PolyCam which turn your iPhone 12 or newer into a lidar scanner and can export the data to a point cloud for use in CAD.

It is understanding of how those measurements were derived and our confidence in them that make us the professional or expert in measurement.

Do I think we as a profession are behind the times? YES

Do I think that we have shot ourselves in the foot by telling more and more unlicensed people no when we should have worked with them and educated them? YES

I am honestly tired of hearing professional surveyors tell others in fields that are closely related to ours or have some overlap No all of the time. Or stake claim that it is surveying based on the law. Look at where that has left us in the past 20 or so years.

Instead, we need to collaborate and have a better understanding of their needs and maybe, just maybe, we can not only help them but have another advocate for the importance of our profession out there in the world.

[LS_8750]

Visualize having every boundary and easement line in California surveyed and perpetuated in the so called Metaverse........ It will take a while........

[CBarrett]

We are experts in measuring the land and features affixed to it.

Connie,

I think with the way technology is progressing we really aren't the "experts" in measuring the land and the features affixed to it. Instead, we are the experts in understanding measurement data and the validity of said measurement data. A seasoned contractor can go out and measure a building footprint to the nearest 1/16" without a blink of any eye. But does said contractor understand that he needs to correct his tape for sag, tension and temperature in order for the building footprint to close? Probably not.

That's part of being an expert, not just knowing how to drag the tape or push a button, but everything that goes into it. If merely laying tape on the ground made one an expert in measuring, than everyone that has ever gotten a papercut or popped a pimple could be considered a surgeon.

Instead, we are the professional that understands the difference between a sub 1cm control network and an RTK/RTN network and what measurements can be derived from each. Anyone can go out and measure and get pretty good results now a day with some pretty inexpensive equipment. If you don't believe me, take a look at this product: https://spike.ikegps.com/ or at apps such as PolyCam which turn your iPhone 12 or newer into a lidar scanner and can export the data to a point cloud for use in CAD.

It is understanding of how those measurements were derived and our confidence in them that make us the professional or expert in measurement.

Exactly, it is a process, not just single most visible task in the process.

Do I think we as a profession are behind the times? YES

Do I think that we have shot ourselves in the foot by telling more and more unlicensed people no when we should have worked with them and educated them? YES

I am honestly tired of hearing professional surveyors tell others in fields that are closely related to ours or have some overlap No all of the time. Or stake claim that it is surveying based on the law. Look at where that has left us in the past 20 or so years.

Instead, we need to collaborate and have a better understanding of their needs and maybe, just maybe, we can not only help them but have another advocate for the importance of our profession out there in the world.

I hear You! Just today I had a conversation with an old timer surveyor (mind you at 53 years old, a lot of people still consider me a newbie *headdesk*) about digital twinning and all that goes into it... and how surveyors should be much more involved in it and possibly leading the way. Initial reacting was, well it is the high precision work that brings in the money.

And I go, well, ok, in a short run that may be true with current conditions, however... we have let go of the revenue stream that is now in GIS (pretty big business) because we were slow in adopting CAD and Databases, even though cadastral type of work has been overseen by surveyors by, I don't know since it's invention few thousand years ago... then we fell behind on ... Insert lot recent conversations in here. Machine controlled models to be used with GPS ... seriously grading contractors are beating us at it, because we are so damn closed minded about something new.

New, younger people - are flocking to other disciplines. I can see why, even I want to give up surveying half the times. Who wants to be patronized and shushed till they are 75 years old, by the 90-year olds who are not keeping up with the professional needs.

Thankfully where I work they are starting to buy into some of the cross disciplinary interactions I keep talking about. At least at work when I mention SWOT analysis most people actually use it, instead of looking at me like I have three heads, and they understand the high falutin' talk about Long term, mid term short term planning etc...

I see it around here and couple other places, where KISS principle seems to be some sort of a badge of honor. Sure, KISS principle helps when someone is brand new and can't do more than one thing at the time - that however is not what we need from leadership.

[CBarrett]

Visualize having every boundary and easement line in California surveyed and perpetuated in the so called Metaverse........ It will take a while........

It would, it wouldn't happen overnight (actually in a Digital Twin), Metaverse is an imaginary world, Digital twin is a duplicate of reality in 3D or 4D... but we already have them all perpetuated via PDF's and paper records. Having it more precise in a different system would actually be a lot easier to do then what it took to initially organize US land records.

We have our cadastral GIS systems, abd they are pretty loosey goosey because we put the horse before the cart, land records were scanned and digitized and places into a loose base - because surveyors capitulated to technology.

Or legal land records, however, (like public lands, as one example) show that it is entirely possible to have a more precise map of, more or less the entire country, using old analog technology (the hard way).

Lincoln may have 'invented' public lands system, but it is not surveyors that did terrestrial and aerial mapping of, huge chunks of the globe - Google did it. They turned into the new Lewis and Clark and Lincoln and the other two surveyors.

[LS_8750]

Google did it?
How about US Intelligence?

[mpallamary]

US Intelligence?

An oxymoron.

[CBarrett]

Google did it?
How about US Intelligence?

Well, yes, there is that too.
I'm focusing on consumer product side of things as an example of a missed opportunity for surveyors offering commercial services (which is what we do).
The product is branded Google Maps and Google earth. It's not Fuscoe Earth, or RBF earth Psomas Maps or (insert any other survey company name in here) Earth Maps.