California Surveyors Forums

You dont know me, I have been the surveyor in charge of over !00 million tons of rock quarried, in charge of the 605/105 interchange in LA, The Center in Escondido, the new LA convention center, the Ronald Reagan state building in LA. And have worked on 3000 u. subdivisions in my 37 year career. I apprenticed under Neil Commings (first author of Surveyor and the Law). Give me a name of the surveyor you know with more construction under their belt, and I will stand down, otherwise, go back to your corner, for you speak of what you know not.

sanchezmikea wrote:You dont know me, I have been the surveyor in charge of over !00 million tons of rock quarried, in charge of the 605/105 interchange in LA, The Center in Escondido, the new LA convention center, the Ronald Reagan state building in LA. And have worked on 3000 u. subdivisions in my 37 year career. I apprenticed under Neil Commings (first author of Surveyor and the Law). Give me a name of the surveyor you know with more construction under their belt, and I will stand down, otherwise, go back to your corner, for you speak of what you know not.

It is not a matter of who you worked with in this profession, it is what you take away from your time spent with that person. If I were a person that spent years and years with Charles Manson does that make it ok for me to think that murdering people is ok? It is how I was trained, it is what I know, it is what one of my most prominent mentors did as well so it has to be the best and only way to do things.

You cannot impress me Mr. Sanchez. I have seen you work product and it is dismal, I think that a three year old with a crayon could do a better job. I would challenge you any day of the week to drafting a survey. You may be my elder but your level of maturity is that of a teenager. I have bared witness to your "Corner Records" most of which should be Records of Survey.

I have had the fortune of working for both a surveyor who didn't follow the law (much like you) as well as a true professional surveyor. One of them based his practice on getting jobs based on low bids. He did thousands of projects as did I while working with him. This man told me that the reason he did certain things was "because that is the way it is done" or "because if we do it this way we won't make any money". I have also had the benefit of working for a surveyors who follow the law, hold themselves to the highest standard and have proven that you can still have a successful business without sidestepping the law.

It must be tough to come to the realization that your license may soon be revoked. A lifetime as a professional so quickly taken away.

At least I can look at that fact and smile as I still have a chance to get licensed and prove you wrong. My only hope is that you live long enough for me to tell you "I told you so."

Oh boy, the Board hearing on these matters is going to be a quite a spectacle. Too bad they won't be selling tickets to be in the audience.

I am happy to say that in my 38 years in this profession, I have run across very few surveyors who come across as Mr. Sanchez does. I have met many, most in fact, who are proud and opinionated, but still very willing to discuss, learn, and even yield to others at times. I doubt very much that a self proclaimed resume will be much of a defense when it comes to repeatedly (allegedly) doing work without a written contract, or proper written contract, in place. Wishing you luck of any kind in these matters seems, well, pointless.

SPMPLS

I agree SPMPLS, I wish I could get a ticket for the hearing. Should be a good one.

The survey equipment that I have works really well as long as the operator knows WTF he is doing and is paying attention. Same goes for the string line. There is a knack to just about everything.

So yes really, pull a string line for PL. As long as you know what you are doing and paying attention, you should be fine.

1) Neil Cummings was an LS at 24, a RCE at 27, and an attorney at law at 31, all according to him, to be a better surveyor, I apprenticed under him, and he signed for me.
2) When you lack intellectual ammunition you attack the person, their character and call names.
3) What you said it like telling the surveyors who built the pyramids and the aqueducts of Rome that what they accomplished was meanless.
4) What I build will stand longer then anything you have said, and if you do not appreciated it, Caltans, MWD, Psomas, David Evans, Kawitt, Kajima, PCL, Sikant, Mollenhauer, Atkinsen, Washington, etc. certainly did, because they paid me top dollar without complaint.
5) When you say "our profession" sonny, what is you licenses number, since you are claiming to be a professional land surveyor.
6) You should stop posting your negative comments, and if you are intellectually capable, then address the issue at hand, that is, can a surveyor set points for a fenceline without filing a CR if it is on established (recorded) subdivision lot if the conditions for a RS are not triggered. If you believe so, then why are CR not being filed on the thousands of construction stakes set every day in California for improvements along or set back from property lines.

Now that you qualify the stringline usage, that is different, I dont know however how much experience it takes to keep a string line withing 0.01' when your pulling it 300' from one corner to the next. That must be above my paygrade, but I wouldnt certify it, it hard to get my chainman to keep the rod bubble that close, not to mention adjusting it after every truck ride.

sanchezmikea wrote:1) Neil Cummings was an LS at 24, a RCE at 27, and an attorney at law at 31, all according to him, to be a better surveyor, I apprenticed under him, and he signed for me.
2) When you lack intellectual ammunition you attack the person, their character and call names.
3) What you said it like telling the surveyors who built the pyramids and the aqueducts of Rome that what they accomplished was meanless.
4) What I build will stand longer then anything you have said, and if you do not appreciated it, Caltans, MWD, Psomas, David Evans, Kawitt, Kajima, PCL, Sikant, Mollenhauer, Atkinsen, Washington, etc. certainly did, because they paid me top dollar without complaint.
5) When you say "our profession" sonny, what is you licenses number, since you are claiming to be a professional land surveyor.
6) You should stop posting your negative comments, and if you are intellectually capable, then address the issue at hand, that is, can a surveyor set points for a fenceline without filing a CR if it is on established (recorded) subdivision lot if the conditions for a RS are not triggered. If you believe so, then why are CR not being filed on the thousands of construction stakes set every day in California for improvements along or set back from property lines.

Might not be as survey smart as you claim to be but at least I know how to use spell check and put a sentence together using the proper tense.

bryanmundia wrote:
"It is not a matter of who you worked with in this profession, it is what you take away from your time spent with that person. If I were a person that spent years and years with Charles Manson does that make it ok for me to think that murdering people is ok? It is how I was trained, it is what I know, it is what one of my most prominent mentors did as well so it has to be the best and only way to do things."

Its not a matter of who you post with....take away. I hope you can take away far more then your neg comments indicate. I once had a apprentice like that, going up endless staircases to retrieve equipment soon cured him of his critical spirit, yep, he quit.

sanchezmikea wrote:bryanmundia wrote:
"It is not a matter of who you worked with in this profession, it is what you take away from your time spent with that person. If I were a person that spent years and years with Charles Manson does that make it ok for me to think that murdering people is ok? It is how I was trained, it is what I know, it is what one of my most prominent mentors did as well so it has to be the best and only way to do things."

Its not a matter of who you post with....take away. I hope you can take away far more then your neg comments indicate. I once had a apprentice like that, going up endless staircases to retrieve equipment soon cured him of his critical spirit, yep, he quit.

I don't know if it was the endless staircase torture that made him quit. I say with the upmost respect to you Mr. Sanchez I hope you get what you deserve with the board.

And to answer your endless question, as soon as you set a point in the ground you should have an exhibit or sketch to explain what you set and where you set it. If only to cover your own backside in case a contractor mistakes your 5' offsets for 8's

SPPLS wrote:
"I am happy to say that in my 38 years in this profession, I have run across very few surveyors who come across as Mr. Sanchez does. I have met many, most in fact, who are proud and opinionated, but still very willing to discuss, learn, and even yield to others at times. I doubt very much that a self proclaimed resume will be much of a defense when it comes to repeatedly (allegedly) doing work without a written contract, or proper written contract, in place. Wishing you luck of any kind in these matters seems, well, pointless."

Well I use e-contract, legal in California, I did not have all the five elements required, and have changed my contract, I have conceded to the board, this error I made, which, by the way, had no effect on the quality or correctness of the work, for even though the client was happy, Mr. Wooley LS decided he had enough of other surveyors "lowballing" him (I presume this is why, or perhaps he is bucking for a board position).
I might deserve probation, although in our industry continuing education is not a requirement, and those contract provisions were not requisite when I licensed (1984), however the board has been pressured (I believe) to take away my license, this action by the board is the only one in my career, and I have corrected those issues.
The reason for these posts is to get an intellectually honest opinion on the issue at hand, that is, can a surveyor set points for a fenceline without filing a CR if it is on established (recorded) subdivision lot if the conditions for a RS are not triggered. If you believe so, then why are CR not being filed on the thousands of construction stakes set every day in California for improvements along or set back from property lines. Especially in light of Board policy resolution 96-03 clearly stating a CR is not needed, along with other letters sent out to surveyors coming to the same conclusion.
Please stop dancing around the issue, I posted my experience as a challenge for someone to name their referenced surveyor whose expertise in construction matches mine as to the validity in using a string line to absolutely represent property line.

bryanmundia wrote:
"And to answer your endless question, as soon as you set a point in the ground you should have an exhibit or sketch to explain what you set and where you set it. If only to cover your own backside in case a contractor mistakes your 5' offsets for 8's"

So how many hubs you set a day? 5? I usually bid 80, you would be fired in every company I ever worked for, or your lying, then you would be fired for lying, above all a surveyor must be truthful. Perhaps your an "office" surveyor with hands as smooth as your tongue, you should have been a lawyer, in my opinion that type of surveyor is the worst thing for an industry strugging to survive, we need real surveyors, not afraid to get their hands dirty, diggin up those old monuments set by our forefathers. There are two types of dogs, field dogs, and lap dogs, which one are you?

Perhaps you are a government worker, who has plenty of taxpayer moneys to document every 60D he sets, oldschool field notes, nope, mine is in the data collector, transfered to the net at the end of day. Who was your mentor?

I would like to see where you work, sonny, do you even know how to set over a point, how long does it take you, should be approx. 20 seconds. Have you ever beat in a 2"IP in Palos Verde rock?

Please, be my guest, take your time, I would only put you on T & M jobs, because I just dont see how you can make the cut.

bryanmundia wrote:
"And to answer your endless question, as soon as you set a point in the ground you should have an exhibit or sketch to explain what you set and where you set it. If only to cover your own backside in case a contractor mistakes your 5' offsets for 8's"

I guess you never heard of cut sheets.

I wrote:
6) You should stop posting your negative comments, and if you are intellectually capable, then address the issue at hand, that is, can a surveyor set points for a fenceline without filing a CR if it is on established (recorded) subdivision lot if the conditions for a RS are not triggered. If you believe so, then why are CR not being filed on the thousands of construction stakes set every day in California for improvements along or set back from property lines.

bryanmundia wrote:
"And to answer your endless question, as soon as you set a point in the ground you should have an exhibit or sketch to explain what you set and where you set it. If only to cover your own backside in case a contractor mistakes your 5' offsets for 8's"

Conclusion: bryanmudia is incapable of intellectually capable of understanding the issue at hand. EG the necessity filing of CR's not contractor exhibits.

Mr. Sanchez,

Discussion as to when you believe setting temp line or corner stakes may be appropriate is legitimate discussion in this thread. Character attacks (especially by name) because you're ticked that another surveyor either filed a complaint or gave advice to a another party who filed a complaint against you is neither legitimate in this thread nor in any other.

If you are still in the process of challenging the citation, I can guarantee that your posts in this thread will not help you at all. If you are going to hearing on this, any competent DAG will use them against you. If you believe you did nothing wrong, your time and energy would be better spent engaging credible experts that agree with you. The Board doesn't always get it right, but you're doing a good job of convincing many of us that in this case, they likely did.

"You have the right to remain silent..." is not exactly applicable to a licensing matter, but it's advice you should seriously consider as to this matter.

Character attacks, I stated a fact about another licensed surveyor, if that is a character attack, then it is he, not I, who is guilty of attacking someones character by filing false complaints in which he has a vested interest, he should recluse himself, if by in any way my work affected him.

Again, you dance around the issue at hand, I came to post, to see what others in my profession believe about the legality of setting construction points on line, not to get the opinion of apologists or their sympathy.

I am more confident in the correctness of setting those stakes, then the depth and thoughtfulness of the posts I have received so far. Is it just me, or is our profession overflowing with shallow thinkers, please prove me wrong, or perhaps are surveyors so fearful that even posting their opinion leaves them shaking in their boots.

Again, I dont know how many times I need to repeat myself, please tell me where I am wrong in setting construction stakes near the property line in light of The Boards policy Resolution 96/03 (see previous posts). This will help me in my response to the Board, of course if I am wrong I would admit it, but I cannot be honest with myself, in light of the truth as I know it. If you cannot help, I dont need your condescending posts (gee, I know Im just asking for it)

If I am wrong, I will freely admit it, but the posts hereon have only strengthen my cause as just, for not one reason has been posted for why setting construction stakes for a fence on an lot line established by a recorded map, without triggering a RS, cannot be done without filing a CR (which I did anyway)

E-page said:
"If you are still in the process of challenging the citation, I can guarantee that your posts in this thread will not help you at all. If you are going to hearing on this, any competent DAG will use them against you. "

I hope the DAG can see how not one surveyor has challenged the legality of setting construction stakes for a fence on an lot line established by a recorded map, without triggering a RS, cannot be done without filing a CR, unless you consider denigrating and calling names a challenge.

sanchezmikea wrote:I would like to see where you work, sonny, do you even know how to set over a point, how long does it take you, should be approx. 20 seconds. Have you ever beat in a 2"IP in Palos Verde rock?

Please, be my guest, take your time, I would only put you on T & M jobs, because I just dont see how you can make the cut.

Mr. Sanchez,

I work in the private sector for a company that is, from my understanding, very well respected in the industry. My work includes drafting of Records of Survey, Corner Records, Tract and Parcel Maps, Topographic Maps, Legal Descriptions and Exhibits. The company I work for provides expert witness work as well as map checking for a number of municipalities. I suggest that if you would like to know more about me and my skills you can check out my profile on LinkedIn, here is a link to my profile: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/bryan-mundia/a/2a7/599

It is funny you attack my skills. To answer your question it takes me about 40 seconds to set a tri-pod and glass over a point. I know I am not the quickest but I make sure to double check everything (i.e. over the point, HI, etc.) and when asked if I am sure about it I can say "yes" with 100% confidence. I have not set 2" pipe in Palos Verde rock and can imagine it must be quite a challenge based on the fact you brought it up. I have set pipe, set hubs, as well as the majority of other types of survey markers though in a number of other areas.

Out of curiousity,what does it take to make the cut at your company?

sanchezmikea wrote:I hope the DAG can see how not one surveyor has challenged the legality of setting construction stakes for a fence on an lot line established by a recorded map, without triggering a RS, cannot be done without filing a CR, unless you consider denigrating and calling names a challenge.

Mike,

I think you have all the answers, and have everyone beat as far as the challenge. I dig some of what you are bringing up as part of a discussion, but it is difficult to find through all the hyperbole. If you don't like some of the laws, there are ways to address the issues. Good luck in your hearing, remember, you'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar.

The point you're missing Mike, is that it is inappropriate to discuss pending hearings or litigation on a public forum, especially when we are getting limited facts from one of the parties in the hearing. Again, the best thing you could do for yourself is to stop posting until after the judge releases the proposed decision, and probably even after the Board acts on it. If you are certain you are in the right, you should have no problem finding colleagues who would be credible experts to testify on your behalf.

I've read just enough of your posts to discern that you are on a prolonged rant and are airing the dirty laundry between you and another surveyor. As Chris Bateman observed "it is difficult to find through all the hyperbole". I stopped at the hyperbole in the posts I started reading, and never got to as far as finding if you have any good points or not. Dave hasn't shared anything about any complaints he has filed recently. With no idea what his points are, I am certainly not an apologist for him. He's perfectly capable of speaking for himself, but is wisely refraining from public discussion of an upcoming hearing.

I strongly suspect that we are not getting all of the facts anyway and don't want my name or opinion based on a limited and skewed fact set used to support a side in a matter that I don't have a full understanding of. The "deep thinkers" of this forum appear to be of the same opinion.

[

bruce hall wrote:[

Well, I might agree, but can you expand on the concept a bit so I can better appreciate the nuances of your thinking?

This is what was going on in my brain. I was going to post something, but decided that I shouldn't state that particular thought process of my mind in writing, for all the world to see. Believe me, it was best left "unsaid".

I deleted my written thoughts but didn't know how to delete the entire post. So I posted and the results are as shown. Have to learn how to delete a post before I send it.

bruce hall wrote: I deleted my written thoughts but didn't know how to delete the entire post. So I posted and the results are as shown. Have to learn how to delete a post before I send it.

Bruce:
1. at the top right of your post select the Pencil icon (edit post)
2. in the edit window at the bottom left check the "delete this post" box