California Surveyors Forums

I've always interpreted ROE to require some relation to boundaries. These boundaries may include unwritten rights, such as drainage courses or other similar circumstances, or they may include the limits of accidents, or landslides, or floods, etc.

I would not extend ROE to civil engineers. If so, why don't we just pack up and go home?

On the other hand, when one is performing working under FEMA, floodplain delineation surveys, etc., the Federal Government has a right of entry clause somewhere that is out of my reach currently.

from dictionary .com

conjunction


1.

(used to connect grammatically coordinate words, phrases, or clauses) along or together with; as well as; in addition to; besides; also; moreover:

If one reads the section in view of the definition of "AND", then it is likely that "and perform surveys" is meant to include activities "in addition to" the activities previously enumerated.

Black's Law Dictionary, 9th Ed.

Practicable:

(Of a thing) reasonably capable of being accomplished; feasible.


In truth, we don't know when we will need to enter the property of others than that of our client's. I'm sure that we can all agree that we generally follow the path of least resistance, cutting line sucks and it takes a lot of time. Enter ROE. "Oh, based on unforeseen circumstances it was necessary (easier) to enter the property of the neighbor to conduct the survey, and so prior notification was not "practicable".

Neighbors in screaming matches like that word "practicable". I don't.

Looky here.
Ten years later and here we are.....

I have always considered ROE to be rather sacred. Not one to barge onto folks' property to gather a few topo shots and have lunch on their porch.... AND TO PERFORM SURVEYS.

The subject came up recently, which brought me to reach out to a couple of our esteemed brethren and return to this thread and the LSACTS white paper.

In light of all the drone activity over the past several years the whole AND TO PERFORM SURVEYS component makes me feel a little more cozy.

Are there land surveyors out there abusing ROE? Are engineers or others abusing ROE?

Just wondering.....

I had an issue a few years ago when the City of San Jose Police Officers told my clients neighbor that they could remove the property corner i set in their concrete. i came to this forum and expressed my frustration. Ric Moore replied to me and got involved. he spoke to the Chief of Police and an Internal Investigation was conducted. I was allowed to return to the property with Police supervision and the Police had to inform the neighbors that they were not to remove the monument the we re-set. This is not directly related to Rights of entry but on our pamphlet, it specifically addresses our right to trespass in the civil code (that is what the officer was talking about when he said it is up to a judge) but is also listed in the penal code which the office has to uphold.
i was given a couple of different handouts during all of this and am including links to download them from dropbox.

The first is is a training bulletin from the Novato Police Department:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ya6zpepp ... ckvvz&dl=0

The second is from NSPS called Right of Entry Committee Report: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/b64yb65u ... zi8em&dl=0

As far as accessing a neighboring property for Topo, i am not positive we have the right. i did access a neighbors property last year. he didnt answer the door but we left my partners card on his porch. he later came outside and demanded we get off his property. He had a very foul mouth and was belligerent was is my opinion he was drunk. we complied and got off his property. Thankfully in this case the properties were separated by a chain link fence so we finished our topographic survey using the non-prism function. We later heard from the board because he filed a complaint against my partners license. we had to explain ourselves to the Board and in this case, there were reports of water flowing from one property to the next causing damage. we explained that the County wanted a topographic map on both sides of the land to demonstrate water flow. The Board found that we did not violate any laws and the complaint was dropped.

Hello and thank you for admitting me as a member. I am not a professional Surveyor or Engineer, rather I am a Home Owner and as such I'm here to offer that perspective on this one issue-- Right of Entry, and share my personal experience this past week. I'd like to pose a few questions to this community if I may, and seek feedback.

In researching this issue and gaining context from the point of view of the surveyors, I think I understand your position on "Right of Entry" and the necessity to provide professional surveyors a kind of waiver or exclusion from private property rights. I can imagine all kinds of scenarios where you might require access to private property in order to accomplish your tasks and duties to a client, and the difficulty in contacting and connecting with a property owner in order to obtain permission, in a timely manner. I get that.

I also imagine that many of you are likely homeowners like me. Can you imagine a scenario where a professional surveyor comes onto your property and sets up sticks, spray paints on your driveway without notice or consent? Does a surveyor's 'right of entry' supersede the rights of a property owner? I'm not naive. I run my own business and as a retired firefighter over the years I've built a dozen homes, utilizing the professional services of Engineers and Surveyors on each and every project.

I'm based in San Marcos, CA and the following is a personal account of an incident that occurred this past week.

I came out of my residence on Thursday morning and noticed a gentleman wearing a fluorescent vest and hard hat out in the middle of the street, a private road, that is the only access to my home and my two neighbors up the hill from me. I strolled out to this individual and in a very cordial and friendly manner asked him what he was doing--

"Surveying."

"Yes, I can see that-- for what project?" -We have a twenty acre open field directly across from our homes and our neighborhood concern is a future development of that site....

The Surveyor pointed up the hill from my house and told me he was surveying for a project "up the street."

I know my two neighbors well and was not aware of any pending or planned projects, so I asked him- "Which neighbor? Which house?"

At this, he told me it was none of my business, and I replied that it kind of is, since he was on a private road, which I own (along with my two neighbors). He picked up his sticks and put them in the back of his truck and drove off. -Kind of sketchy- but since he left, that was the end of it.

I changed clothes to head to the gym and when I left, he was set up again at the bottom end of my street, so I rolled down the window of my truck and asked him if he had a business card. "No-- I don't have one."

"Who is it that you work for? -and out of an undeserved respect, I'll leave out the name of the company, operating out of Poway.

"And what's your name please?" He told me his name was Joe, and that if I had a problem, I should call his company. I drove off and that's exactly what I did.

I called ***** Engineering and Surveyors out of Poway, and asked if they were surveying on my street, and if they had an employee named "Joe."

The gentleman I was speaking to on the phone asked-- "A big Santa Clause looking guy, with white hair and a beard?"

No-- this guy is short and squatty....

"Oh, that must be " ****** " -he's working on a project in the area a block away from you. --At this I was immediately annoyed. Not only would the surveyor not tell me what project he was working on (and lied about it) he had now also obviously given me a false name. The guy on the phone put me on hold and I returned to park behind "Joe's" truck, which had no company info, neither logo, nor name, nor license number-- no markings.

The guy I was on hold with over the phone had called this Surveyor and was on speaker, telling him to just pack up and get his centerlines elsewhere, to not have a confrontation. I spoke up and asked the person on speaker if I was speaking to "Joe" or " *****?"

The Surveyor hung up and came right up to me in a threatening manner and started aggressively asking what my problem was, and that he had "the right to survey on my street."

Not knowing the laws in this regard, I responded by saying-- "Not without permission or notice, you don't" --but he stuck his face into my space, only a few inches from my nose and with my forearm, I pushed him away and asked what his problem was. He then bum-rushed me and hit me in the face several times before I knew what was happening. I couldn't believe it, and while I struggled and tried to strike back, he kept pummeling me and knocked me to the ground, pushing my face into the asphalt as I tried to get up.

A neighbor came out as I called 911 while "Joe" who is not Joe, did the same. I was bleeding profusely and when the Sheriffs arrived, they insisted on calling the Paramedics and Fire Dept, to attend to my injuries. I have two black eyes, a broken nose, and multiple abrasions on my forehead and nose from being face-planted into the asphalt. I've now missed two days of work.

My questions------- ?

How, and with what Board or Ethics Division, do I file a complaint about this person, this "professional Surveyor" and the company he was representing and employed by, while conducting his work?

How do I find out if he is licensed? (and not simply operating under the license of his employer, who was not in direct supervision of him).

I googled the company, which has been cited twice this year for violations while operating without a proper license.

I called the company directly and asked for the Owner/Manager to reach out to me and I sent them photos of my injuries at the hands of their employee, but no one has reached out.

-A neighbor of mine has since told me that they spoke with this same Surveyor earlier in the week, on Monday when their security cameras were triggered by this individual, who they then approached and asked what he was doing. He was at that time also evasive and unwilling to provide any information. When my neighbor pointed out that he was on a private road, he said he knew that, but that "it didn't matter."

Is this really how Surveyors conduct themselves?

The entire incident is captured on video and I will pursue in civil court (since the Sheriff did nothing) but my question is regarding the appropriate professional board or association to file a complaint against this company and to determine the license status of them and this individual in particular.

Good luck and the process is very easy to file a complaint with the Board.
See link.
https://connect.bpelsg.ca.gov/#/submitcomplaint

Surveyors like you describe, don't get public support and only make the good surveyors look bad.
The same goes for the public to cooperate with the land surveyor in the field, as I currently have a project being held up for a week now after leaving a standard right of entry door hanger & business card asking them to please contact me. I will have to make a special trip to the site in the evening in hopes to get someone at home, so I can explain the need and law, even though my survey and the monument is 1,000 feet away from my site. This is common for early 1900 surveys, and a then found and shown on a 1991 official survey. Maybe this will help you understand what the surveyor was attempting to accomplish, but his actions were not professional.

Good luck on your situation.