California Surveyors Forums

DWoolley wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:26 pm

My thought was for the land surveying community to waltz in and be the technical guides and service providers to help the underground folks meet accuracy standards (incidentally, creating a sustainable business model).

That is my thinking too, I'm trying to figure out who is who and where to start.

This week is the Subsurface Utility Mapping Strategy Forum Conference in Canada. You can catch it on YouTube live or pick up a free ticket (SUMSF 2022). The programs are not exclusive to Canadians. Plenty of discussion on the work in the US i.e. the new ASCE standards, various state laws, software, etc.

Several mentions of the "sub-centimeter" accuracy of the equipment available. There has been quite a bit of respect shown towards the land surveyors knowledge of measuring - this prompted one person to comment "we need to figure out how to democratize the data collection and removing the land surveyors [from the process]...". He was advocating a watering down of the role of the land surveyors by increasing the role of locators. I wanted to assure the masses in the conference the California land surveyors are quite accommodating when it comes to surrendering their existing work and future potential work to unlicensed folks. Alas, in classic surveyor fashion, I missed the opportunity. Later, according to the story told, the surveyors in England are much more defensive of their work and especially with the work currently being completed at Heathrow Airport.

Apparently, one problem the unlicensed folks are encountering is the cost of insurance and/or the inability to get insurance.

Tomorrow is an interesting line up of programming.

I am especially looking forward to Friday's program:

PointMan Field Data Collection - "Easy 3D mapping"
Description:
An overview of Prostar's "Cloud and Mobile Precision Field Data Collection Solution and the set up of the ProStar "PointMan Plus" application FREE to WorkShop attendees.

PointMan is a patented cloud and mobile mapping software application that captures, records, and displays the precise location and the associated metadata of critical surface and subsurface infrastructure, all in "real-time"

Workshop includes:
-1 FREE annual subscription of a PointMan Plus (Mobile app.)
-Training on how to download and set up the PointMan Local application Video's on how to:
- How to connect to an EM locator and an external GPS receiver for capturing X,Y,Z
- How to set up your Projects and Data Dictionary
- How to create points, lines and polygons
- How to export your data Features: Geoid Models Google Directions Supports PDFs out in the Field Data Dictionary Photo & Sketch Support Pairs with Major Locate Tools Multiple VRS/Correction Services Real
-Time Datum Translations Stakeout for Points & Lines Survey & Mapping Grade GPS Units Attach Photos & Forms to Features Audit Trails for Users & Data Feature Lock Snap Line work to Points/Potholes Split & Join Lines Supports Custom Attributes Trimble GPS/GNSS & Catalyst DA

The bolding of text is mine own.

This is the professional version of smallpox blankets being delivery to our land surveying people. We will welcome them with open arms if they do not have or do not place any expectations on our community. I believe the history is the smallpox left less than 50 Mandan tribal members. Where's my blanket?

DWoolley

Interesting!

Whenever I share this article, I get hate mail and threats. I wrote it ten years ago.

Measurement is Dead.

mpallamary wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:32 pm Interesting!

Whenever I share this article, I get hate mail and threats. I wrote it ten years ago.

Measurement is Dead.

Scanning through the article....
Back home where I went to school, Land surveyors are allowed to do grading (at least we were when I was around 30 years ago). Road grading, site grading, rough and precise for sites and roads and pipelines. Maybe it changed since. I still see it in school curriculums. You can do surface storm flows too. Once it goes into the structure (catch basin, pipes etc) then it needs a civil engineer.

Yes indeed.

I have been advocating a rewrite of the LS act for more than 30 years. When I do that, I get more hate mail.

Alas.

Measurement is dead, to those that know how to do it. But there is a cottage industry out there as well, picking off those who have no idea what they are doing.

DWoolley wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:17 pm This week is the Subsurface Utility Mapping Strategy Forum Conference in Canada. You can catch it on YouTube live or pick up a free ticket (SUMSF 2022). The programs are not exclusive to Canadians. Plenty of discussion on the work in the US i.e. the new ASCE standards, various state laws, software, etc.
...
DWoolley

The subsurface programs today had one theme, the accuracy of the equipment used to locate and map underground infrastructure. The general understanding is "less than an inch" and another claimed "5cm" (0.16') if the "RTN base unit was less than 40 kilometer" from the location. Trimble has this market captured in that the presenters only talked about Trimble GNSS. They do not call it GPS or mention other brands. In fact, they use Trimble GNSS as a complete name, never simply Trimble. Side note, I had another contractor on a job site recently call his use of GPSRTN as "Trembling" (spelled like they pronounce it).

One cool presentation was using a drone to map pipelines that run under the water.

Another presenter was asked how a person could get into their underground mapping industry. The answer went something like this "It used to take many years to learn to read paper plans, learn CAD and to obtain field experience, but we have been able to do away with that using the new mapping applications". They had a fancy name like AI Virtual Mapper on a Stick or similar.

Worry not, I am sure your land surveying jobs are secure. We should all agree to keep this accuracy thing under wraps, why ruin their expectations? Besides, we shouldn't chance anyone asking us to take a leadership role.

DWoolley

As you mentioned Dave, that future has arrived. We have just been replaced by an Iphone application.

https://www.facebook.com/MoasureApp/vid ... _GK0T-GK1C

I am going to make a possibly unpopular assertion here, for the sake of a different point of view, to see how it fits.
I think that professionals of all kinds have always had to battle and figure out how to deter lay people from misusing the tiny bit of knowledge they gain about a profession. Dissuading and educating lay people will always be a part of what we have to do.
This is such a common occurrence with us 'hoomans' that there is an actual named psychological phenomenon or syndrome if you will, describing it.
Some of you may have heard about the Dunning Kruger phenomenon. It rose in popularity since mass use of social media and everyone thinking they are an expert. In the older days we also called something similar the Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

Here is some basic info on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E ... ger_effect

So, I am bringing this up because reading all the posts here I started buying into the doom and gloom scenarios, and had to do a quick reality check. Yes, technology is progressing faster that in was 50 or a 100 years ago, but by now we should all be pretty used to the pace, much like people 100 years ago were used to their pace of progress. I think every surveyor in history has had to deal with a glut of unqualified know-it-alls telling them what to do and how to do it.

This brings me to... SWOT analysis
I know we have a few business owners here, have any of you done SWOT analysis for your business?
Lets do a somewhat organized SWOT analysis for surveying in California. (By the way, NSPS is doing it)

Strengths, Weaknesses Opportunities and Threats

Instead of winging and flinging and falling bass ackwards into business opportunities because there are so few of us, how about we get more organized. (I have cats, I'm used to herding cats, ok), it could work with surveyors too.

I need you smart experienced guys to help me make a list of Strengths, Weaknesses Opportunities and Threats

Curt Brown wrote about this 50 years ago.

I wrote the attached articles 22 and 23 years ago. Curt Brown's comments were interesting.