California Surveyors Forums

We require preliminary title reports for many of our projects but getting one is becoming a problem in Sonoma County. Most of the companies have left the county, operating out of the Bay Area and they are less than responsive.

Is anyone else having this problem and what are you doing to solve it?

The East Bay Chapter had a presentation a couple of months ago from a former senior title officer for a big title company. He had a wealth of useful information to share and put on a great presentation.

He described a sad state of the title industry where they have laid off all of their senior title officers to the point that customers will have a hard time finding knowledeable people. The days of getting helpful advice from your local title officer are now gone according to him. Title is insured based upon a risk assessment rather than an extensive title research.

It was a very informative presentation. The East Bay Chapter plans on having him back January 13th.

We have spent many years seeing the rewards of having Title Companies with huge "promotional budgets" with a lot of slack. Times have changed.
When the $$$ flow slows down to a near stop something has to give.
Prelims have traditionally been FREE (the promo budget) and we were happy with the instant response and great service.
Now we see people with no slack in their budgets trying to keep us happy... and someone has to pay the bills.
Time to rethink what we really need and want... do we really need what we have always demanded?

Down south, First American Title, their Temecula Office and their Riverside Office were absolutely tops. Kim, Doug and the rest always provided first rate service.

Up here, Placer Tilte seems to be the one for me. Jenny Vega, Julie Pickard, Eric Seastom and Lorie Brindenbaker have all given me top level service. If you need contact info for any of these good folks...CALL ME!! I'll share!!

Greg: What are you spending $5K on? A series of reports or some serious title chains?

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The Title Insurance industry has been changing for awhile. Not much money to be made for LLA, and ALTA's. The constant updates and "free" services have taken their toll.

We simply hired a laid-off Title Guy and he does all the underwriting for the Title reports, but we charge out at a profitable rate. Whenever I do deed research I have him to the chains, and pull the docs for me. We have an agreement with the local Title Company which still has a plant hear in town.

Most title companies are going for Parcel Map Guarantees or subdivision work, and most Title Companies that are financially sound are also the worst when it comes to title search and underwriting. They have actually bought out the good Title Companies, but there are a couple hold outs. Profit is King the int title insurance world and during the boom there was so many title policies written based on bad underwriting that they are paying out hefty settlements now.

Gerg: Check your email...the .edu one...

I'm getting bad service as well. We paid nearly $3000 for 7 reports from a company for a road widening project. Found one report that doesn't mention the adjoining slope easement that was created when the road easement was originally granted. We requested an updated report six weeks ago...nothing. Maybe they'll insure it and then someone will win a claim against them.

We have seen the quality of title work degrade as well, but we can still easily get them done. We pay for title chain research and they still frequently miss documents, or just don't seem to understand how title conveyance works. Since we are in the information age, I'm surprised that there is still no easy way for us non-title company people to research old documents. The websites I see offering research only have relatively recent documents. I know of very few surveyors who go to the recorder's office and perform their own research. Will there be a time soon when we don't need title companies for research? I realize the need for preliminary reports will continue.

I've been working with title companies in CA for 30 years, and I've seen a steady decline in competence and service. In the 80s, one company with a great plant allowed me to conduct my own chain research. They actually maintained their own ARB maps and related ARB books, hand plotting every easement or LLA description as they recorded. There was a mutually cooperative atmosphere with surveyors.

That has completely disappeared. Last year they moved their plant to another city. Their local office now doesn't even have a single title officer on staff. They have no expertise to share any more.

Twenty years ago they started going downhill. Back then, a big developer told me that he routinely got two title reports, from two different companies, as a way to hedge himself from the poor quality searching being done.

What's happened over the years is as disgusting as it is sad.

Ian,
I'm glad Placer Title is good up in Placer County, cause they are far from good from my experience around the Bay. I remember when employed at Hayward, Placer didn't know what to do with mylars for a parcel map when I sent them.

Luckily I don't have to deal with many Title Co. these days, and I wonder how many of my contacts are still around?