California Surveyors Forums

When I expose old pipes with brass tags, I usually scratch the tack until the license # is readable. It’s kind of time consuming. I would like to hear your ideas of how to do this.

I carry CLR cleaner/solvent. I pour some on the tag and then GENTLY scratch with a small wire brush. It cleans very quickly. Then I pour water on it to slow down/stop the reaction.

.....then GENTLY scratch with a small wire brush....

Make sure to use a BRASS wire brush or you risk scratching the tag, making hard to read the numbers.

I also use an erasure sometimes.

The CLR is a very good tip, thanks.

I use a brass wire brush attachment for the drill. Works great. I often will replace a badly rusted nail/tack with a new tack this way, since the rotating brush will prove out the weakness of the nail.

But most of the time the old tacks and nails are holding up just fine.

PE_PLS wrote:I carry CLR cleaner/solvent. I pour some on the tag and then GENTLY scratch with a small wire brush. It cleans very quickly. Then I pour water on it to slow down/stop the reaction.

Thanks for your respond. CLR has different products/ cleaners. Do you mean the Bath & kitchen cleaner, Calcium, Lime and Rust Remover, or CLR Metal Cleaner?

Medium or fine grit sanding sponge.

Chemicals can be too harsh & may continue to work even after your not.

The CLR I use is Calcium Lime Rust. In response to Ian....thats why I wash the tag off after I'm done, I don't want the reaction to continue....

Dylan

@ Dylan>

Water only dilutes & does not neutralize. Brass is a soft alloy that isn't known for chemical resistance.

I would refrain from using any chemical cleaners. The ones in the soil have already taken their toll - that's why you're trying to clean it in the first place.

Ian,

I respect your resistance to chemical cleaners, but I want to emphasize that CLR is not very strong, from a chemical perspective. Its mechanism for cleaning is a 10% concentration of lactic acid, i.e. the same stuff found in yogurt and buttermilk at approximately 1% concentration. In fact, some of the home remedy methods for cleaning brass is to rub yogurt on it and let it dry and then wipe it off. All this to say it is not very strong stuff. I use it without gloves and the MSDS says it is not a skin irritant unless you are exposed to it for long periods of time. As far as chemicals go I don't think this is going to contribute at all to causing deterioration of a tag, especially when all is said and done I wash off the chemical. As stated initially, I respect your opinion to not use it, though I think using fine grit sanding blocks or wire brushes cause as much or more "damage" to the tag than this type of cleaner.

I've used a fine sanding sponge and brass wire brush with success.

I'd second the reluctance to use CLR; it is fairly mild, but you're still adding an additional chemical to the mix that can cause more issues over time. Something that isn't a skin irritant can still cause no end of problems, only because it's going to be left for quite some time in addition to any chemicals existing in the soil itself.

It's only a suspicion that it may increase the deterioration of the tag, but in the effort of preserving monuments, I feel it's only prudent to avoid chemicals where I can.

Most of the time when I'm struggling to read a tag, it's wired tight against a mud-caked pipe down in a hole, so I'm open to just about any method available that allows me to successfully read it. While I make an effort at leaving tags in place and in good condition, the maps I file perpetuate their discovery, so I'm not too concerned about using cleaning methods that might cause some damage. It's an identifier, not a relic.

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1 Some type of light source, mirror, flashlight
2 Some type of maginfication
3 Pencil or a paint pen, yellow keil

My favorie is a dot of white paint from a white paint pen,yellow. I spread the paint around the tag wiping the excess off and what is left is trapped by the edges of the stamping. This makes the tag readible. I have not considered if the paint or keil has a corrosive effect on the tag. But, it certainly seems less damaging than using a wire brush.

Most of the time tags are hard to read because there is no contraast between the stamping and the surrounding tag and becasue of low light conditions(shadowing in a hole for example). Depending on lighting conditions, the tag is in full sunlight for example, darkening the surface with graphite works very well. Dirty is removed by using water.

Thanks for the post

Most of the tags I have a hard time reading are the ones with all the corrosion and scale built up on them.

A quick scuff or two with a sponge-type sandpaper pad works wonders.

I’ve used the keil trick many times. It works pretty well. I haven’t used the paint trick, Dane, but I like it! The paint isn’t going to be terribly damaging to the brass…not like a reducing cleaner would be.

I have had good luck with a pencil. I use the lead to scratch off any deposits and the graphite acts like a lubricate. I then use the eraser to get rid of the graphite and clean the tag.

Ditto SGROBER and DMI. Who the hell carries CLR a mile deep in the mountains?

in reading the tags is that they are in a confined space. At least for me. Maybe if you removed the tag, which is relatively easy to do, then place the edge of the tag in a pair of pliers, place the tag on a hard surface and scrub with a small wire brush or steel wool, maybe then you could clean it off sufficiently to read the number.

I would think that the nail head would not be covering up the characters, nor would the crap concrete along the edge of the tag be in the way. Should make it simple to clean that puppy off and away you go. No bending over in a dark hole that is a foot and a half deep trying to get a number off of that corroed piece of brass.

Once read you could affix the tag back on the pipe or reset one of your own.

the paint is a good idea, but I have seen that turn scenario to junk more than once.

If the tag is in an awkward location I have put my camera on close up mode and taken a bunch of photos from different angles. It is not uncommon to be able to read the tag in the photo. If it is dark the flash should light it up.

Cleaning might be required first.

I have often advised against using a concrete scribe to clean tags. The hardened tip can ruin the soft brass disc in a few seconds. Many people still use the scribe, probably because they have always have one in their pocket.

I use a small brush with brass bristles to clean tags.

and a flashlight work great for reading tags on the side of pipes in a hole without removing them from the monument. I use a wire brush attachement attached to a drill to clean them up. How many out there still carry a Right Angle Glass in the truck? Man, we used to use that thing on every topo and staking down the cl of roads. The tag reading is all I use it for now.

I have found that a free magnifying glass iphone app work good in many condition and can also take a picture through the mag glass. My iphone is not the latest and believe that the iphone 4 has a flash that can be turned on and used as a light for better viewing using this app. Also a good digital camera with flash can be useful and you can zoom in on the picture right in the field.

That reminds me that a few weeks back, I reached my Blackberry down into a hole cranked up the zoom and snapped a picture. with the flash, it turned out pretty well. The cameras on those phones amaze me with their quality - on par with a good $300 digital camera just about 5 years ago.

for me Steve. Guess I will have to try consuming more calcium or have the lady down at the hair and nails shop modify my nails to accomplish that task.

One thing I have found very useful is a hand water pump or large syringe for removing that annoying water from monument wells - hard to see the pipe much less the tag under 6" of nasty water.

I was using a cup or anything else in the truck but after dipping it into a monument well - nobody wanted to drink out of it anymore - wimps.
Attached is a type of water pump.

A couple of old towels will do the trick getting water out of the monument wells. The pump is a great idea, since if you have a bunch of wells to drain and towel can only do so much before it's too saturated.

I carry a turkey baster in the truck and use it when appropriate, but a well that's really full requires a more robust solution, especially when there's a lot of fast traffic on the road.

I started carrying a heavy-duty hand-operated bilge pump about 10 years ago, and when it works, it works great -- it moves a lot of water quickly, and the large flap valves inside aren't stymied by bits of gravel and other debris. However, when the pump has dried out those same valves can be cranky and refuse to seal, even after running a quart or so of water through them, so I've ordered a pump similar to the one JoeC displayed to see how it compares. My guess is that it'll be more susceptible to clogging, but I'm hopeful that by keeping the intake in the water and not the mud it'll work well enough.

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