California Surveyors Forums

Has there been any recent analysis or discussion of AB 1551?:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/bil ... duced.html

Has there been any consideration of how this might impact a surveyor doing boundary research? What about showing record data on a new record of survey? Would the retracing surveyor need to get written permission from each of the surveyors who produced a record map with data pertinent to his/her boundary resolution, if he wanted to show that information on the map?

Would this legislation create a right beyond the typical copyright, which can't apply to facts?

Here are the pertinent sections of the proposed legislation:

8761.3. (a) No person shall use a licensed land surveyor's maps,
plats, reports, descriptions, or other documentary evidence
authorized by Section 8761 without the consent of the licensed land
surveyor in a written contract, written agreement, or written license
specifically authorizing that use.
(b) A licensed land surveyor shall not unreasonably withhold
consent to use his or her maps, plats, reports, descriptions, or
other documentary evidence from a person for whom the professional
land surveyor provided the services. A licensed land surveyor may
reasonably withhold consent to use the maps, plats, reports,
descriptions, or other documentary evidence for cause, including, but
not limited to, lack of full payment for services provided or
failure of the requesting person to fulfill his or her obligations
under a written contract pertaining to the services.

Have there been any comments from BPLSEG or the CLSA leg committee on this proposed bill? Does anyone know what the status of the bill is?

Thanks for any comments or additional info.

Landon

Just thinking out loud here. Would the proposed legislation apply differently to unfiled survey maps than it would to a map in the public record? If unfiled survey maps or other documents are given special copyright protection by this legislation, would that change the standard or practice in regards to research and consideration of these maps in a boundary resolution?

What was the motive and goal of the legislation?

I'm curious about what my peers and mentors think.

Landon

Does anyone with common sense read and think about these laws?

Landon, it is my understanding (and as discussed in the June 5-6 BPELSG Board Meeting) that this bill failed deadline back in February.

Landon,

I attended the last BPELSG meeting on behalf of CLSA and the comment from Board staff relating to AB 1551 was " this bill is going nowhere... the bill is dead".

Check the BPELSG website and go to Board Meetings and you will see "Agenda" and "Materials" next to the June 5-6, 2014 meeting. Click materials and brief comments are on page 21 and a bill analysis of AB 1551 is on pages 25 and 26.

I hope the information is helpful.

Roger
CLSA BPELSG Liaison

I appreciate the updates. Copyright issues related to survey work products are tricky...I imagine it is hard to balance the preservation of access to information that should be public while protecting surveyor's work product.

Landon

I like the architects' model. They sell their service and retain ownership of the work product, unless agreed to otherwise on a contractual basis.

Since the board's duty is to protect the public by regulating the practice, it is highly unlikely that they would ever support such legislation, or any of it's kind. This proposal would give rights to the service provided at the expense of the public.

Work product that by it's very nature would have to be made public cannot enjoy protection under this legislation.

As a community, we ought work together to pass laws that we need for our protection... architects do it, pawnbrokers do it, egg farmers do it, we can do it too

Where in CA law are copyrights discussed as they related to professional land surveyors?

Looks like it officially died:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces ... 0140AB1551

While browsing the Cal Surveyor archives for something else, I found this...

(See Attached)

I didn't read the entire article, but note that it is by an attorney from Florida and is pretty dated. There have been developments in case law that have greatly limited what portions of a surveyor's work product could be subject to copyright. Company logos, unique symbols, a narrative describing one's reasoning behind professional decisions would be covered. The facts shown on a map are not covered.

There are also fair use limitations to the copyright a surveyor can claim. A person can make as many copies of a map filed in public record as they like. A copyright violation may occur depending upon how they use the map.

Any information created by the surveyor, including notes, calculations, worksheets, prelim drawings, etc. in the performance of a project that results in a map filed with the County of provided to the client belong to the surveyor unless there are specific contract provisions assigning ownership to the client.

I've never understood those who feel that "the client paid for the survey, so it all belongs to the client." Except for some government contracts that specified ownership of field notes, etc. is with the client agency, when a client hires a surveyor, it is for the surveyors ability to form the required professional opinion, and for specified deliverables which are designed to show the opinion or make it tangible - commonly in the form of points marked on the ground and a final map. Everything else is either information gathered to form the basis of the opinion, or to assist in organizing the raw data to facilitate forming the final opinion. None of it constitutes the final opinion that was paid for and is not included in the contractual deliverables.

Agreed. I just happened across it.