California Surveyors Forums

And who the hell invented this concept?

Hundred year old verifiable fence lines in rural Sonoma County on each side of the public road measure 58 feet apart. The 1859 Board of Supervisors Resolution states that all public highways are to be 60 feet wide.

New construction is proposed. Where is the edge of right of way?

I'm holding the fence lines, lacking any other available evidence to the contrary.

Have you read this?

http://www.pobonline.com/articles/97517 ... ght-of-way

Interesting reading.

I've seen County fieldnotes where fences were intentionally set 1' inside the right of way.

I've also seen agency construction drawings where the fence is to be set 1' offset so that the agency can maintain their own fence.

Fences can get complicated. A.C. Mulford had a good discussion on fences.

Public right of way is for the benefit of all. What is proposed sounds like adverse possession, by proclaiming encroachments monuments (apparently because they are old).

My recollection of right of way determination:
1. The Board of Supervisor's (BOS) Resolution is not sufficient without more research, and I also believe there are some problems with these blanket resolutions not providing sufficient public notice.
2. It does not sound like you have found the BOS acceptance of the actual road in question, viewer's reports, road books, or other documents.
3. You didn't mention if you researched any of the historic state laws that might govern the road width, many of them are specific to specific County's.
4. In my experience the fences on old rural roads have generally always been located inside the right of way at least a few feet. Why not?..the property owners make use of the idle land. It makes sense.

Again based on the limited information provided it sounds like the fences support the fact that the width is probably 60 ft or 66 ft. The rare instances described in the POB article do not parallel the situation described with the fences. Sure the fences are one piece of evidence, but far from enough.

Too many right of way monuments are set incorrectly by surveyors practicing outside their area of competence. Too many County Surveyors are land development/Subdivision types that do not have an adequate understanding to protect the public's right of way. Too many ROW monuments set by private surveyors later have to be rejected or cause problems for all...End of my rambling...Thanks for reading...I apologize for the tone of my post.

Caltrans used to set, may still do, fences one foot onto the ROW.

Fence pre-dates Sups 1859 adoption of pubic highway. 58 feet wide, 59.2 feet wide, 59.9996 feet wide, 60.476 feet wide. Who cares?

Who wants to trash monuments in this application?

This is a hypothetical scenario.

Mr. Civil Engineer,
Thanks for your post.

Have you ever held viewers 1800s report calls from the survey of a pre-existing road, at that time, over the suspiciously odd fitting ancient fence lines measuring consistently equal in distance from one another through the subject corridor?

I held the fence lines in Sonoma County, based on the contention that the as-travelled road centerline was more likely to adjust over time than these ancient fence lines.

The opposite was the case one time for men Santa Cruz County. The only calls were topographic calls to the centerline of a creek at the road crossings. Thanks. So I held the viewers report calls to the centerline and the Sups width call.

What is with this "incorrectly set" monument mentality you speak of?

What is so difficult to understand? Why are surveyors over the centuries setting monuments in the wrong place? What about CCP 2077.2?