California Surveyors Forums

So I performed a survey and filed a record of survey after setting property corners to assist my client with a boundary dispute.
Issues arose and the rear neighbor was cutting branches from my clients trees, after pushing the fence over to get closer, so the police were called out and a police report was filed

In the police report my clients showed the property corners that I set as the boundary to the police, and the rear neighbor told the police that he recently had a survey and the boundary was on the other side of the fence into my clients property, but no corners are visible. I mentioned to my client to request a copy of his survey, or even ask were the other points are that his surveyor set.

What else would one of you do as a licensed surveyor, besides run the other direction, lol. I thought about contacting the officer that wrote the report and ask him if the neighbor showed him the second set of property corners as he mentioned was from his survey. This may support the issue that the neighbor may not be telling the officer the truth.

In that situation, I would advise the neighbor as you did but also have them ask for the name of the neighbor's surveyor. Otherwise, keep your head down and stay out of the line of fire unless and until they need you as an expert witness in legal proceedings, or unless and until the landowners are ready to agree to an LLA to put the line at a location they can both live with.

I agree with Evan. I would advise my client to send a registered letter to his neighbor asking for a copy of the survey had done. He has a right to it since it affects his property. He could also as to have that surveyor show the property corners he set.
Another route would be getting the name of the surveyor, I really doubt there is one, and have your client call and request the above.
But at this point stay low and be prepared to justify everything you did, just filing a RS will not suffice in court.

Certified letter to the neighbor requesting information regarding said "survey" is the way to go.
The letter in my opinion shows you are exhausting all of your resources in the due diligence of performing your survey.

The presumption from these posts is (and land butcher stated) that PLS 7393 has a “right” to the neighbor’s survey. We have to assume the neighbor’s survey was not filed, otherwise you wouldn’t have to ask for a copy. Why is the neighbor obligated to share his unrecorded survey with anyone?

Doesn't matter Mr. Ford. Only thing that matters is documentation. My bet is that the neighbor is bluffing, there is no survey.
Send the certified letter asking for a copy of the neighbor's "survey." First thing client's attorney will ask for is a copy of neighbor's "survey." If none provided, then attorney acts on behalf of client.

Clark,
Please call me Mike, Mr. Ford is way to formal. Assume the neighbor isn’t bluffing and he did have a survey of his property. The neighbor depended on that survey to locate the common line between the two properties. According to the neighbor’s survey the trees are on his property. PLS 7393 apparently located the line in a different location and documented the boundary dispute with a record of survey. The record of survey is available to everyone. The neighbor’s surveyor didn’t file a map. Under these circumstances is the neighbor obligated to make the unrecorded map available to everyone involved?

Mike, that is a good question, although perhaps diverging from the topic.
I would say that this other surveyor who performed survey for neighbor would likely be under the 8762 obligation to file a map as well.
With a little nudge from client's attorney and the Board, perhaps that survey may be coughed up.

But on the other hand, perhaps the neighbor's survey and map was old, and the only copy known to exist was in the hands of the neighbor. I see no reason why the neighbor would be required to hand it over. Perhaps somehow the author of the neighbor's map was discovered, and that surveyor has since passed on, and that surveyor's records fell into the hands of a local surveyor. Well then......

If the neighbor is making assertions about where the property line is based upon "his survey", without a copy of the map or pointing out verifiable survey monuments, it comes down to a matter of the neighbor's say-so without further evidence to corroborate that say-so against Keith's survey monuments and map.

There are several possibilities regarding the neighbor's survey:
1) He's BSing and never did have a survey of any kind.
2) He hired some unlicensed yahoo to "find his corners" and set lath or some other untraceable and likely temporary markers and received no map.
3) He hired a LS who set temp markers and reasoned that since he set no "monuments", he wasn't required to file an RS.
4) He hired an LS who never filed a map for some other reason, or just to save $ and charge a bargain rate fee.
5) He hired an LS fairly recently and the map is still being processed.
6) The map was miscataloged in the County records as being in some other portion of the county, in which case it might as well be unfiled as to the ease of locating it during one's research.

The purpose of asking for a copy is twofold. First, to have the info for consideration. Second, to move toward ensuring that survey information will be publicly available if it was subject to a recording requirement when it was performed. If there was a survey and the surveyor is still around, then pressure can be applied to him to file (assuming 8762 triggers are present). If it is a map from a surveyor who is no longer available to file a map, it can be provided to the County Surveyor to be filed in his Miscellaneous Maps (obtaining a copy from the landowner of the signed original given to the landowner probably avoids any copyright/records ownership issues of past surveyors' records, but I'm not certain of that.)

Clark,
If the neighbor does have a copy of the map and is unwilling to produce it, case closed. Keith’s client wins. Whether or not Section 8762 applies is irrelevant. If the neighbor or his surveyor is unable or unwilling to produce the map, the map may as well not exist. If he does give Keith a copy and Keith references it on his ROS, a copy of the map is submitted to the county surveyor with the ROS review package. The map is entered into the public record in the county surveyor’s office. Copyright issues are moot, regardless of who owns the map. As Evan noted, the copyright (if it ever existed) goes away if the neighbor gives Keith or his client a copy.

Evan,
I agree with everything you list as it relates to this thread. I think it is imperative that any survey that affects the boundaries of the subject properties should be available for inspection by any of the adjoining owners, or their representatives (i.e. surveyor), whether filed or unfiled. Keith has done all he is required to do for his client. If the neighbor is disputing Keith’s work he (the neighbor) is obligated to produce the survey map.

You and Clark have touched on another issue surveyors face regularly, copyright and how it works for and against us. That's a topic for a new thread.

Another possibility, is that the neighbor's attorney hired the surveyor and they is requiring confidentiality for the time being.

I'll bet the neighbor is just bluffing. I hope to hear the end of the story.

Update: I have not heard anything new from my past client. For those curious, my record of survey was recorded a few months ago, before this additional issue that caused the police report. The two neighbor have been going at it for some time and it is ridiculous since both lots are over 200' in depth and on a hill.