California Surveyors Forums

Steve Martin posted in another thread:

Section 8726 (f) appears to misuse the term "cadastral"

8726.
A person, including any person employed by the state or by a city, county, or city and county within the state, practices land surveying within the meaning of this chapter who, either in a public or private capacity, does or offers to do any one or more of the following:
...
(f) Geodetic or cadastral surveying. As used in this chapter, geodetic surveying means performing surveys, in which account is taken of the figure and size of the earth to determine or predetermine the horizontal or vertical positions of fixed objects thereon or related thereto, geodetic control points, monuments, or stations for use in the practice of land surveying or for stating the position of fixed objects, geodetic control points, monuments, or stations by California Coordinate System coordinates.

8726(f) appears to use "cadastral" to clarify "geodetic", however they are two completely different concepts.

Steve, you raise a very interesting topic. Parsing legal intent and meaning of language typically engenders multiple perspectives. I started a new thread just due to wanting an untainted discussion and to pose a fairly specific question or two.

Prior to 1996, section 8726(f) didn't include the definition of geodetic surveying. It only included the first sentence, "(f) Geodetic or cadastral surveying." Would you consider the possibility it was simply an attempt to clarify geodetic surveying and had nothing to do with equating geodetic surveying with cadastral surveying? One could also reasonably interpret "geodetic or cadastral surveying" as simply intending to refer to two types of surveying.

Not a question, I guess, but more an observation, I respect the concept you state: "Statutes are interpreted from the plain-language meaning of the words", but I'm not sure in this instance one should separate out the potentially generic "cadastral" from the term used in the statute, "cadastral surveying". This is after all, a land surveying specific statute and should probably be regarded primarily in terms of its land surveying meaning.

Lawyers can quickly make a mess of simple syntax, so I concur, your perspective may be entirely legit. I guess that long winded bloviation of mine could best be summed up to say, it's not clear to me that cadastral and geodetic were ever intended to be viewed synonymously in the context used within 8726(f).

Dave Ryan,
Arcata, Ca.

My perspective and two-bits on 8726(f).
1. Geodetic surveying is a part of the definition of “Land Surveying”.
2. Cadastral surveying is a part of the definition of “Land Surveying”.
3. Oh, and by the way, in case you are not sure on the definition of geodetic surveying, the following is how this “chapter” defines it.

Q1: Should the two types of surveys have been given their own sub-section? Maybe
Q2: Should cadastral surveying have been given a definition as well? In this case, probably

The intent of 8726(f) may lie only with the original authors of this sub-section.

Perhaps replace the "or" between Geodetic Surveying and cadastral surveying with an "and".

(f) Geodetic and cadastral surveying. ...
yes, that clear now.

In 1996 not many were actually doing much true geodetic work. It seems somebody decided to clarify and in hind site it muddied the water a bit.
The more we try to finitely define something, the more people jump on the exceptions (not directly stated)
Perhaps striking that attempt at defining geodesy world be better still.

pls7809 wrote:Perhaps replace the "or" between Geodetic Surveying and cadastral surveying with an "and".

I would think "or" is best. Although cadastral contains some elements of geodetic, I wouldn't want the law changed to say one has to be performing both at the same time in order to pull the 8726 (f) trigger.

Thanks for posting Dave,

I appreciate your rational look at the issue.

Peter, John and Ryan too