California Surveyors Forums

I have the pleasure this year of surveying a boundary in District 4 which adjoins state highway. The most recent record of survey on file with the recorder is surveyed 2005 and filed 2007. It shows actual measured boundary monuments (referenced from several other maps but now destroyed by a recent realignment) and no new control (previous control is from a 1999 RS which does have regional HPGN monuments on the ground). Deeds and a 2012 "Record Map" (not public record like a record of survey but available from their website) indicate new property and easement acquisitions, construction, conservation and slope easements (construction was several months and involved substantial grading and 50' tall retaining walls, etc). The 2012 Record Map shows symbols for Dimension point, Found Monuments and Control Monuments but shows only Dimension Points on the map, not sure why the others are in the legend. The Dimension Points are not tied to anything on the ground but they have State Plane Coordinates in meters. I have found DOT Control monuments on the ground, pipes with plugs (no LS number they only say control monument, orange Carsonite "Survey Marker" paddles and mag nails with "CT Survey Control" plastic washers. None of this is mapped.

Is this typical? Is the DOT highway construction custom to come in and blow out all of the local survey monuments and file nothing and leave a mess of state plane coordinates on the ground for private surveyors to come in and clean up? Best I can do now is to try to mark their ROW boundary from the coordinates provided and tied to the HPGN. All of the other property boundaries that now have no monuments are probably lost and will be very expensive to re-establish. The highway looks real nice.

I made a request for information about 6 months ago that received no response. I'm about to make another or start calling but I'm asking here to gain some insight and find out if I am wasting my time in trying. I know District 4 has at least 2 dozen Licensed Surveyors on staff at $100k a year each. Do any of them ever produce a survey map or assume any liability? Maybe I ought to go work there...

Call the caltrans field office in Santa Rosa.
They are located at Fulton and Occidental roads.
They will be able to get the information you need or who to call to get it

Please see section 10.17 on page 37 here:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/row/landsurvey ... urveys.pdf

Here is the link to the Statewide Caltrans survey contacts:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/row/landsurvey ... ntacts.pdf

Contacting the Santa Rosa office is an excellent suggestion.

SPMPLS wrote:Please see section 10.17 on page 37 here:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/row/landsurvey ... urveys.pdf

My main complaint is that they obviously skipped over section 10.10-6 and that's a big one, ought to be written in BOLD

Also no evidence of compliance with 10.11 and 10.16 but I have made a second request and we'll see what comes of it. It's only been five years since the construction finished, I can be patient, I know mapping takes time.

Believe me I will call (or maybe just show up there, they don't offer a phone number online but the address is published)

Thanks for the reference I will make a request for ROW monumentation in accordance with Surveys manual 10.17 and report back here so we can all benefit from awareness of the simplicity of the process. It looks super easy on paper!

CALIFORNIA PUBLIC RECORDS ACT (CPRA):

Start here for any records request:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/d4/cpra/index.html

I think they'll provide coordinates for their control points if asked.

Anthony Maffia wrote:I think they'll provide coordinates for their control points if asked.

To update: following a second attempt in August at an online request for information, which again received no response, in October I began calling people from the contact list posted on this thread. I finally found someone in Oakland to help though it took several calls and follow-ups to get the right name. I called them and they answered the phone and were helpful and responsive. Upon request I sent in an exhibit map of the problem area and was later informed that the monumentation and mapping effort for this project had “slipped through the cracks”...

I was provided a timeline of a few weeks for the rest of the ROW to be monumented.

About 5-10 pipes were set on the side of the highway just before Thanksgiving. The surveyor in Oakland notified me that all pipes had been set and a Record of Survey was pending. I saw the fresh flagging on the side of the road. When I walked the site I observed monuments covering about a quarter of the +/- 3400 feet frontage of the lot I was concerned with.

The right of way along this parcel is irregular with several curves, variable widths, heavy vegetation, creek crossings with culverts and structures, retaining walls, a maze of new and old fencing and new easements granted to augment the original right of way as it existed before the improvements and new takings in 2011. I was not offered any exhibit to show what had been set or where.

The control monument documentation was not provided despite several requests. I asked who was in responsible charge of the survey and when the survey would be filed. Again I received no response.

Finally I was put in touch with a surveyor from the field office in Santa Rosa. He was cordial and patiently explained the situation and his honest prediction for the outcome. The phone call took about 15 minutes. After signing a confidentiality agreement I received an appraisal map with a markup of what had been set previously on the right of way, in 2010.

Apparently they had monumented most of the right of way back in 2010 but no one knew except the field crew that did the work. I had only searched for pre-existing property corners, not potential new ROW lines.

Any monuments destroyed through the course of this construction work will not be replaced. A record of survey to show the established right of way monuments is in process but there is no budget left on this project so no one can say when the map will be completed.

The surveyor in charge of the Santa Rosa field office says he now requires pre and post construction corner records to mitigate monuments being lost in construction but has no accountibility for the previous administration.

The take away lessons learned:

1) I don’t feel like anyone was trying to hide or cover up anything but they do not make it easy to retrieve this information. Apparently in this instance the project was so old that the surveyors in charge today have no sense of what was going on back in 2010.

2) If we as surveyors accidentally never file a record of survey or set monuments on our projects then we can just say it slipped through the cracks and do it later on if and when someone chases us down and asks for it. If thats the way the most resourceful survey outfit in the country operates then I suppose it’s good enough for me!

3) “There is no budget left on this project” is a valid reason to delay filing.

4) I should have listened to Vance in the first place.

5) Some joker sitting in a skyscraper’s tenth floor cubicle in Oakland tells me I’m not a boundary guy. That was interesting....

6) Polite persistence pays off sometimes

7) Last but not least I now have contact information for information from the Santa Rosa field office which I appreciate greatly. It could have saved me about six months of head scratching on this project.

I still haven’t decided whether to indicate “no record found” or “record of survey pending” on my parcel map in reference to the DOT monuments. Hopefully their record of survey will be filed before I have to choose but I won’t hold my breath while I wait.

I wonder if this is a common occurrence or did I just get lucky?

I believe it is probably common occurrence. I was once reviewing a map where a surveyor called off a Caltrans point they found in the field as the ROW line. It didn't jive with other ROW documents in the area, so I called up the local Caltrans office and spoke with the surveyor who did the field work. He informed me that the point of interest was a control point for their construction and had nothing to do with boundary. When dealing with Caltrans, it's best to pick up the phone.