California Surveyors Forums

Celebrating 30 years of monument destruction.

Where's Sancho Panza when you need him?

Ok, I'm done piling on ;) Seriously, though, how does the story continue? Did the City Council respond? Did Engineering ever change their tune?

P.S. that damn lead continues to haunt us; having to rip out the pipes and water fountains at our schools, etc.. good thing it's not just us surveyors guilty of choosing the wrong materials for the job!

P.P.S. think lead-fillings were the catalyst for the quixotic "tilting at windmills?" Oh wait, that'd be mercury. I suppose neither were around when Cervantes penned The Ingenious Knight of La Mancha... he probably battled tooth-decay with that frontier medicine [eXtraction+whiskey]

Really nothing has been done other than everyone is upset that I keep asking about the monuments that have been destroyed. As you can see, I have only been asking about this for thirty years, What is most frustrating for me is if a private sector surveyor did something to compromise a survey monument - maybe one or two of them - their license would be in jeopardy and they would have to hire a lawyer to defend themselves. In the case of a public employee, he/she can destroy thousands of monuments and not be held accountable. No one cares; it is unimportant. With each passing day, we are destroying the fabric of our land surveying system. I suppose the goal is to replace it all with coordinates so who really cares?

mpallamary wrote:I suppose the goal is to replace it all with coordinates so who really cares?

This seems to be the way things are going. Surprisingly, there seems to be a great amount of support within our own community to provide survey grade coordinates as evidenced by this current discussion on GIS. I personally don't see the value in "donating" this extra work to the county. After all, if you truley need to know what you own, you should have a survey performed. It may seem "clean" to have an accurate looking GIS, but has a great potential to cause problems for landowners when they mistakenly rely on GIS instead of the advice of a surveyor. Not a great thing for the surveying profession and business either as we are cut out of the process.

Olin Edmundson wrote:

mpallamary wrote:I suppose the goal is to replace it all with coordinates so who really cares?

This seems to be the way things are going. Surprisingly, there seems to be a great amount of support within our own community to provide survey grade coordinates as evidenced by this current discussion on GIS. I personally don't see the value in "donating" this extra work to the county. After all, if you truley need to know what you own, you should have a survey performed. It may seem "clean" to have an accurate looking GIS, but has a great potential to cause problems for landowners when they mistakenly rely on GIS instead of the advice of a surveyor. Not a great thing for the surveying profession and business either as we are cut out of the process.

I don't think GIS calls for survey grade coordinates. That is overkill just like scanning old map archives at 900 dpi color when 300 black and white is plenty good for handwriting. GIS is now a fact of life, I'd say we are better off embracing the technology and valuing it as a tool than continuing to try to give a cold shoulder

I'm personally offended by any destruction of monuments and I suspect the CA DOT may be one of the biggest culprits. I feel like those guys should be setting the gold standard on professionalism and monument conservation, not setting the bar on how to tear them out and not file anything and get away with it. All those hundreds of projects and surveyors and they hardly ever file anything (and they are even exempt from review fees!!)....

Just slap some coordinates on there and call it good. I suppose I should be happy to have that at least

[Also posted at "CCS 83 Required" ]

“A lot of you cared, just not enough”, Thirteen Reasons Why, Jay Asher

The recent discussion points:

1. “GIS is a fact of life…we are better off embracing it”. They should start their own group, have conferences, certifications, churn $1.1b+ annually and name it something catchy, like, Esri? The horse has left the barn.

2. The destruction of monuments with little consequence for the agency staff from BPELSG enforcement staff, simply a “keep your nose clean, do better next time”, case closed. The surveyor takes the time to file the complaint, the board enforcement unit washes it and the surveyor is ostracized, now repeat until thoroughly demoralized. Pyrrtic victory, at best.

3. Tying subdivision maps to CCS 83. Amazing. I am left to wonder which county decided in 2017 it was time to explore these newfangled coordinate thingumajigs? I would have bet, apparently and lost, this had been completed statewide well over 20 years ago. I am out of touch.

4. Side note, over the weekend I read a surveyor’s resume in which he proudly “introduced” to the hiring firms (plural is correct here) tofast-static GPS. In 2015-16?! I confirmed the firms had GPS prior to his employment. I wonder, is it really a complete RTK/RTN/OPUS hack world? I am no longer seeing the chasm between licensed surveying and a…contractor? tradesman? my neighbor?

For a brief moment, I was expecting to read the Governor from Arkansas, Bill Clinton, has won the election and Nirvana’s seminal album Nevermind has been released, each circa 1993.

I write this with complete sincerity, I enjoyed reflecting back to yesteryear, thank you.

Not to be critical of the gift, but a nice crescendo – think the pianos at the end of A Day in the Life – would have been to hear the crier proclaim “continuing education! We need continuing education!” Harkening back to 1970 when it was first written in the CalSurveyor and the succession of past president’s state agendas for the next 40 years, to no avail. For what it's worth, Moses and Aaron spent less time wandering the wilderness eating quail and manna.

Appreciatively,

DWoolley

Bottom line is govt protects govt and the private sector gets the bill.

It's time govt and the individuals involved are held accountable for their actions. Govt doesn't care because the taxpayers are always the ones paying the bill.

Developers pay big money for plan checks and inspections, but how does an inspector sign off on condos with no fire blocks and no sound barriers or fire barriers between units. Simple, the inspector did not do the job he was paid to do, but the govt is immune and the developer is the one that gets sued.