California Surveyors Forums

I am preparing my presentation for the upcoming CSU Fresno Conference, and was hoping that some of this forum's posters would share some of their favorite surveying tips for inclusion in my presentation. They don't have to your original thoughts, but if they are I am happy to credit you. I like this one:

If safety isn't your first thought, it just might be your last...

I'm sure that with all the experience on this forum, each of you must have two or ten things to share...

Safety starts with "S" but begins with "U"

Rob, what is your topic on that you are asking our assistance and tips on? Is it for your review of the NCEES, or are you preparing a second presentation too?

In any case, my tip for the day: Don't stop searching for that original monument until you find it!

Tip #1

There is no such thing as a "record boundary" in connection with a field survey as referenced in Business and Professions Code 8762 (b). If anyone in the audience suggests otherwise, please request a reference for their definition and a written citation for the procedures. The documentary evidence suggest this term and the associated procedures were fabricated by the professional community. The underlying purpose was save well heeled folks money at the expense of honest businesses and additionally, sanctioning professional negligence.

The noted exception a tentative map has the presumption an established boundary will be completed at a later date, hence the exception for a record of survey under Business and Professions Code § 8765. In the event the subdivision map is not filed, a record of survey must be filed if any of the triggers for a record of survey were tripped.

Tip #2

RTK/RTN will not yield the accuracy required to certify an ALTA Land Title Survey - even with optimum conditions. One out every 10 measurements will fall well outside of the accuracy standards. The surveyor has no means to determine which one of the ten measurements are bunk. To certify to having met the ALTA "minimum" standards using RTK, especially RTN, is negligence.

Tip #3

The use of "Fd. Mon.", "Fd. Pipe", "Spike" or similarly skinny descriptions for monuments is negligence.

Tip #4

In the event the field crew no longer maintains any written field notes - you're doing it incorrectly.

How much time do you have to cover? This list could go on for days.

Talk to the old-timers.

Last week I was entering a persons yard. I don’t always but this time I went and knocked on the door and requested permission to enter his land. He says “sure” as they always do when I ask nicely and I went on for about 5 steps then turned around and said “Oh, by the way do you happen to know where any of your property corner monuments are located. He walked me around to 5 corners within 15 minutes and showed me a deed pipe that wasn’t on the deed or any maps and i never would have looked for or found as it was a witness 30’ off the corner but on line. The other pipes I tied out in one setup (once I knew where they were I could set a more efficient traverse) when it would have taken me 3 hours to go around and stake them all out individually.

It turned out his dad was the original subdivider and next he rattled off the order of sale of all 5 lots (free chain of title back to 1965)

This has happened to me several times before. Frequently that old timer can lead me to the original subdivider of the lot which solves all kinds of problems when things aren’t working right.

I learned this in Texas where there are no records of survey but it turns out that most old ranchers know exactly where their corners are located and who built the fences and usually can go up to the attic and bring down a map (which is easier to retrace than a deed any day).

Jeff Lucas says it all the time in his ranting.

Most surveyors I know still don’t do it. I believe it’s pride that sometimes keeps us from asking the neighbors what’s going on in the hood but if I ever teach anyone one thing this is it.

I’m sure I could have figured it all out on my own....

I agree with all the tips from Mr. Wooley especially #1. It's very frustrating hearing about proposals where an RS is clearly required but is not included but a "record boundary" is. This creates unfair competition.

DWoolley wrote: Tip #4

In the event the field crew no longer maintains any written field notes - you're doing it incorrectly.

I am interested why I am doing it incorrectly? I write down notes on sketches when necessary, but no formal field notes.

Khuerth,

Think of field notes as a liability reducer, if you are ever called on by the court or others nothing helps more than date, crew, job, weather, signed, talked with old timer about previous surveyor etc............ can write a detailed description of what was tied or set, sketch of control.
some of us record doubled angles.

Brian

Don't stop learning once you have graduated or passed the licensing exam.

Land Surveying encompasses so much you can continue to learn and improve your expertise throughout your entire career.

Read, read magazines, surveying books, and published court cases. Attend conferences and learn from the experiences of others.

Continue to learn throughout your entire life, success in your career, and the success of the profession depends on it.

RULES OF RESEARCH AND EVIDENCE EVALUATION FOR
CONDUCTING A BOUNDARY SURVEY IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
PREPARED BY MICHAEL J. PALLAMARY, PLS *

In conducting a boundary survey, one of the most important aspects of determining a property line is the acquisition and analysis of evidence. Failure to perform this work is the most common cause of errors in relocating boundaries and oftentimes leads to boundary disputes. Any relevant information such as title reports, unrecorded documents, and communications with neighbors in the possession of the client should be supplied to the surveyor and should be specified in all written contracts. The following steps should be taken when conducting a boundary line survey.

EXAMINATION OF WRITTEN EVIDENCE

Public Records Research: The search of public records shall be sufficient in breadth and depth to identify with reasonable certainty the described location of the client’s boundaries, any gaps and/or overlaps with the adjoiners’ described boundaries, apparent errors in the written descriptions of client's boundaries, perceived or evident rights associated with the property, restrictions upon the use of the property pursuant to any recorded deed, and the intent of the conveyance.

The search of public records should be extended to all known repositories including those documents recorded in the Office of the County Recorder and the Office of the County Surveyor/Engineer which shall include, but not limited to Subdivision Maps, Parcel Maps, Records of Survey, Corner Records, Right of Way Plans, Miscellaneous Maps, and Private Surveys. If working in an incorporated city, City Surveyor and City Engineer’s offices should be researched and should include the acquisition and review of “tie point sheets” and City Engineer/Surveyor field notes, field books, right-of way maps and miscellaneous surveys. If the survey is adjacent to a state or county highway, research shall include State highway right-of way maps, monumentation maps, control maps and tie notes. If near a flood control channel, or water district, district right-of-way maps, tie notes and survey notes shall be reviewed. In resurveying sectionized lands, research shall include Township Plats, Rancho Maps and government field notes for Public Land Surveys on file with the County and Bureau of Land Management. Utility companies and railroad right of way maps shall also be reviewed when working near or adjacent to any utility lines. Witnesses who have knowledge of the location of missing corners should also be considered whenever possible.

If no monuments are called for in a deed or if there are questions regarding seniority, a chain of title maybe necessary to determine the time frame the parcel was created. After determining the time of parcel creation it will help narrow the search of private archives to surveyors who may have records from that era.

Private Records Research: The search should also be extended to include privately held survey notes as evidenced by found monumentation or as may be referred to on recorded maps and surveys. Private restrictions and agreements shall also be considered. The search of private records should ultimately be extended to any and all information indirectly indicated or implied in public and private records, both professional opinion and personal knowledge, that may aid in any way in the correct location of boundaries, and thereupon, explicitly or implicitly become part of the public record. If a public records research identifies a private survey, it should be obtained and reviewed.

FIELD PROCEDURES AND EVALUATION OF FIELD EVIDENCE

Prior to commencing work, it is advisable to contact neighbors and adjacent property owners: When working in sectionized areas or rural areas, it is a good idea to send written correspondence to adjoiners to inform them that you will be working in their area. If you are surveying an aliquot portion of a section, in many instances, you will need to breakdown the entire section. This written communication also provides you an opportunity to meet the spirit of Section 846.5 (a) of the Civil Code of California which grants licensed land surveyors the rights of trespass:

(a) The right of entry upon or to real property to investigate and utilize boundary evidence, and to perform surveys, is a right of persons legally authorized to practice land surveying and it shall be the responsibility of the owner or tenant who owns or controls property to provide reasonable access without undue delay. The right of entry is not contingent upon the provision of prior notice to the owner or tenant. However, the owner or tenant shall be notified of the proposed time of entry where practicable.

In this introductory letter, it is a good idea to explain what you are doing and where you will be working. You should also inquire about any corners or surveys as the adjacent owner(s) may be in possession of an unrecorded survey or know the location of existing or previously existent monuments. This can accomplish numerous things. First and foremost, if there is more available evidence, you will obtain it so that you can consider it. Second, in the event a dispute arises and if one of the neighbors were to produce a conflicting survey or challenge your work at a later date, they may be estopped from producing the document if you can demonstrate that you requested this information and you sought their input early on. Last, but not least, from a business perspective, they may want you to survey their property if you are already subdividing the section. It may be prudent to inquire in your introductory letter if they are interested in having their land surveyed. There is a definite economy in surveying several parcels in the same section.

In the event you obtain information from the neighbor(s) and it is valuable information, you may be obligated to use it. In the very least, you need to analyze it. In the event the neighbor(s) are aware of the previous location of any corners, you can replace it/them using parol testimony as provided for under the Business and Professions Code, to wit:

8760. Every licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer may administer and certify oaths:

(a) When it becomes necessary to take testimony for the identification or establishment of old, lost or obliterated corners.

(b) When a corner or monument is found in a perishable condition, and it appears desirable that evidence concerning it be perpetuated.


Physical Evidence: The survey should commence with a reconnaissance and location of CalledFor Monuments. Sufficient field investigation shall be conducted to establish the existence and the condition of monumentation called for in the written record. Once located, any discrepancies in the location of the physical evidence must be compared to the written evidence and any differences between occupation lines and record boundaries and any problematic use of land indicated by the record evidence shall be noted and analyzed.

Due care shall be taken in the unearthing of called-for physical evidence to preserve it in place and in good condition. Historic or questionable monuments shall be properly identified and shall include detailed information including the type and size of the monument including any and all markings. Uncalled-for or “Non-record Monuments” ( monuments other than those called for in the public record) shall be verified by their correlation to found and accepted record monuments, witness monuments, record measurements, accepted lines of occupation or lines of possession, and parol evidence.

Any irregular or undocumented monument should be photographed and identified. If necessary, such as in the consideration or acceptance of public land corners, consider obtaining declarations from the members of the survey crew. The credibility and acceptance of survey monuments should be based in part on their apparent age, their use and acceptance along with the prevalent practice in a given area. Section 8760 (c) provides as follows:

8760. Every licensed land surveyor or registered civil engineer may administer and certify oaths. . . When the importance of the survey makes it desirable, to administer an oath to his assistants for the faithful performance of their duty.

A record of oaths shall be preserved as part of the field notes of the survey and a memorandum of them shall be made on the record of survey filed under this article.

If you encounter lines of occupation that differ from deeded or monumented lines, you should take pictures of the staked line(s) and field measure the lines of occupation. If there is a major encroachment that the client is unaware of it has the potential to create tension between the neighbors, offer to provide a site survey plat depicting the relationship of the encroachment items in relationship to the boundary line.
Upon completion of the survey, file the necessary map or plats in accordance with your duties under the Business and professions code. This will probably be either a Corner Record of a Record of Survey.

* Derived in part from the Manual of Practice for Professional Land Surveyors in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as adopted by the Pennsylvania Society of Land Surveyors, seminars by Michael J. Pallamary, PLS, Paul Cuomo, PLS and contributions by Sean Englert, PLS, Casey Lynch, PLS, and Dave Ambler, PLS.

Great input. Thanks guys. Keep them coming. I will use what I can. This is for the FS Prep presentation. I was thinking of scattering them throughout the presentation to keep their attention. Dave Wooley is correct - the one or two liners that we have heard through our careers could go on for a long time.

"If you think you will find the monument, or think you will not find the monument, you are likely correct."

Rob_LS - one liners.

Tip #5 A leaning rod is a falling rod.

Tip #6 Slowly rock the rod [moving it back and forth towards the level to determine plumb i.e. lowest number read].

Tip #7 Raise for red [to determine the foot mark when the rod is close to the level].

Tip #8 On rare occasion the surveyor has to use a 4'+ rod to measure to a monument or control point, collect the first measurements [plural], rotate the rod 180 degrees and collect a second measurements [plural]. The mean of the two measurement sets should compensate for the bubble being out of adjustment. Also presumes, the surveyor occupies or measures monuments/control from two separate locations - everyone does that, right?

KHuerth said "I am interested why I am doing it incorrectly? I write down notes on sketches when necessary, but no formal field notes."

In years past, most data collectors were limited to 18 characters - which may account for the brief and incomplete monument descriptions that have become common place. Business and Professions Code 8764 (a) "All monuments found, set, reset, replaced, or removed, describing their kind, size, and location, and giving other data relating thereto." Describing the kind and size, and location, and giving other data relating thereto i.e. 2" inside diameter iron pipe with a brass tag stamped "D. Woolley PLS 7304", Down 0.5' in dirt - that doesn't fit into a data collector and certainly, will not properly import into CAD. It is 19 character spaces at the end of "diameter" and I made no mention of "location". Good field notes make for good mapping.

Also, the information exported from a data collector is not readily understandable or translated by some practicing surveyors. I recently sat through a deposition in which the surveyor began to translate the raw data with no understanding of a zenith angle or slope distance and especially, the abbreviations in the raw file. If I recall correctly, he [or his insurance company] wrote a check for nearly $300, 000 in the settlement.

DWoolley

Perform your surveys like you were taking the Board exam!

Always, Always, Always perform your surveys in anticipation there will be litigation and everything you do will be audited, scrutinized, and critiqued and if you made a mistake, you will be sued.

Before delving into the question, it should be pointed out that there are two very different types of possession found by the surveyor. One is totally unrelated to the original survey lines; the other is possession, which represents where the original survey monuments were set. Let us suppose that an original surveyor set an original monument to mark a corner; further, a fence was erected at the time the monument existed. Later the monument material disappeared. Now the fence is a monument to where the original monument was located. In this discussion only possession unrelated to original monumental lines and possession out of agreement with written deeds is being considered.

- Curtis M. Brown

Principle: Professional stature cannot be acquired by self proclamation; others must bestow the title upon the surveyor.

The three professions or learned professions as defined by Webster, are theology, law, and medicine. Definitions of a profession, though not exact, include such phrases as “a group of men,” following a “learned art,” and as a “public service.”
We, as surveyors, know that we are in a profession practiced by a group of highly skilled men pursuing a learned art for the benefit of the public. But we, as professional men, are not the sole judge in this matter; others must also think so. Whether surveying is a profession or not is something that the public bestows upon the surveyor. Fortunately, it is not something that is acquired by self proclamation. If it were otherwise, everyone would soon lay claim and become higher in stature whether qualified or not. The professions that the public recognizes and acclaims as professions, i.e., doctors, attorneys, and clergymen, need not use the title professional doctor, professional attorney, or professional clergyman; everyone knows they are professional. The title was bestowed upon them because of their ethics, behavior, and standing in the community. Friends, business acquaintances, and others will evaluate surveyors by their behavior, technical skills, education, and ethics. Only if they behave and act like professional men will the public bestow upon them the privilege of being professionals.

- Curtis M. Brown

Principle: In exchange for certain exclusive privileges granted by law to the surveyor, he has obligations to the public, the client, and fellow practitioners.
The surveyor and sometimes the engineer, by his license or registration, is given the exclusive privilege to (1) hold himself out as a land surveyor and (2) to monument property lines.
These rights are granted to protect the public from unqualified practitioners. In exchange for these exclusive privileges, the professional surveyor has certain obligations to the public, the client, and colleagues.
The land surveyor has the authority, by law, to monument property lines, but he does not always have the responsibility of perpetuation. In California, a large portion of our lands were divided by one of the finest systems ever devised, i.e., the sectionalized land system. The Federal Government provided the original monumentation, but no provisions were made for the perpetuation of the system. Perpetuation may be accomplished by delegating such responsibility to public office holders or to private land surveyors. In California, each has responsibilities for perpetuation. If in the performance of land surveys, the land surveyor discovers certain facts, such as a material discrepancy from the record (Section 8762 of the Land Surveyors Act), he must file a public record. Thus, there is a perpetuation of records disclosing the location of found monuments and original survey lines.

- Curtis M. Brown

The surveyor has the following obligations to the public:

(1) to see that the client’s boundaries are properly monumented without subtracting from the rights of the adjoiner;

(2) not to stir up boundary disputes;

(3) not to aid in unauthorized surveying practice;

(4) to see that those licensed as surveyors (or as engineers, if engineers are permitted to practice surveying) are properly qualified by character, ability, and training; and

(5) that those who prove unworthy of their privileges have those privileges deprived.


- Curtis M. Brown

Stirring up litigation, according to common law, is a crime known as maintenance. If the offender in a land boundary case is a surveyor, he is doubly at fault. A surveyor may act as an arbitrator and try to smooth over a difficult boundary situation, but he should not stir up litigation as a solution to the problem, especially where he would collect an expert’s fee as part of the litigation.
Because the surveyor is to protect the bona fide rights of the adjoiner, he should not hesitate to point out what the rights of the adjoiner are. If there is long-continued possession and title has probably passed by acts of possession and knowledge of such facts would tend to prevent the client from entering in litigation, the surveyor should not hesitate to disclose such facts. However, the surveyor should also suggest that attorneys are the proper parties to render an opinion on such matters.


- Curtis M. Brown

Occasionally those who are licensed, by their conduct, prove themselves unworthy of licensing and should have their privileges removed. Surveyors are better able than laymen to appraise the qualifications of other surveyors. If a surveyor is frequently negligent in his duties, that fact will be noticed by several surveyors, who, as a group, can prefer charges.

- Curtis M. Brown

Regardless of the fee charged, the surveyor is obligated to perform a correct survey within specified accuracy.
While there are times when the property owner will agree that an inaccurate or approximate property line survey will suffice for his purpose, the surveyor ought not to accept such a commission. Another surveyor, at a later date, discovering the approximate survey monuments, will take a dim view of the surveyor’s ability. Future owners, not knowing the circumstances under which the monuments were established, might be misled. Furthermore, approximately located monuments may be the basis for fraud or deceit on the part of the property owner or the client. Most people assume that surveyors’ monuments are located correctly; hence the mere finding of an approximate property corner may be the cause of a costly misconception.


- Curtis M. Brown

Communications between the surveyor and client are confidential. But the surveyor may not be a party to an illegal act or fraud, and communications concerning illegal acts or frauds are not confidential.
At law, the surveyor is not given the right to withhold privileged communications. But, unless required by law to disclose the business of a client, communications are confidential. If a client is having a survey made for the purpose of building a large commercial center, such information should be kept secret until such time as the client wishes to announce the facts.
But this does not mean that the surveyor is to remain silent if a fraud or illegal act is being perpetrated. The surveyor should never join in nor be a party to any illegal act or fraud, nor should he allow his silence to be the cause of fraud or an illegal act.


- Curtis M. Brown

The surveyor often monuments adjoining properties, but where there is a property line dispute, the surveyor should avoid rendering services for the adjoiner unless he has the consent of his client.
In property disputes, the arguments are usually over encroachments. A surveyor employed to determine the status of encroachments cannot very well reveal them to a neighbor for another fee. In litigation a surveyor consulted by one party cannot ethically advise the other side, especially if he possesses confidential information. Of course, the surveyor must testify in court to all things truthfully and may not withhold any information he is asked about; but this does not mean that he should have pre-consultations with the opposing side.


- Curtis M. Brown

A profession is partially distinguished by the fairness and courteousness of one practitioner to another and their unwillingness to encroach upon the clients of another. Businesses compete aggressively for competitors’ customers; professions do not. A member of a profession values the esteem of his colleagues and the prestige of his calling, especially so the more mature his age. But those who advertise or steal another’s customers do not induce cordial reception or pleasant relationship, as it ought to exist, among surveyors. Thus surveyors have obligations to one another.


- Curtis M. Brown

In the event a land surveyor discovers an error or disagrees with the work of another land surveyor, it is the duty of that surveyor to inform the other surveyor of such fact.
Surveys are not for the purpose of stirring up arguments and fights between neighbors. If the adjoining property has been surveyed by another surveyor and the two surveys are not in agreement, the matter should be discussed between the surveyors prior to announcing that an error exists. Sometimes evidence found on the first survey may indicate that a different principle should be used in the later survey. Of course, if a surveyor has made a genuine error, other surveyors should not honor the error, but the first surveyor should be given an opportunity to prove the correctness of his survey if he can.


- Curtis M. Brown