California Surveyors Forums

Years ago, CLSA had a Proprietor's Council where those in business could exchange business information, deductions, employee issues, etc. Is there any interest in that?

For those in business, especially those who have had to defend their license and business before the board, take a close look at the attached version of the PLSA to see how it is so heavily biased against private businesses. If nothing else, this is a good reason for a Proprietor's Council. The vast majority of complaints are against small business owners. Remember that public agency surveyors do not need to stamp their monuments. This is an issue of fairness and equity under the law.

take a close look at the attached version of the PLSA to see how it is so heavily biased against private businesses.

I don't see a bias against private business, I see protection of the public. Can you be more specific as to why you believe there's bias in the statute?

Yes, the contract provisions create many problems for a small business owner. I have seen it time and time again. A disgruntled client files a complaint regarding a business practice and the private surveyor spends a hundred thousand dollars defending him/herself regarding a contract dispute. often the Board weighs in on contract disputes - to my knowledge without any business background - and prosecutes the surveyor.

This process is used as a bludgeon. I have had it happen to me several times. A client threatens me and asks me to reduce my bill or he will file a board complaint against me. I had to hire attorneys in these type of complaints and in one instance, the person who filed the complaint, withdrew it after his lawyer told him it was illegal to do that. The Board continued with the investigation for 18 more months even though there was no merit whatsoever. In every instance I have seen when a public employee surveyor has a complaint filed against them, nothing happens and the taxpayer is on the hook.

Also, private surveyors have to place their license number on their monuments and public surveyors do not. Thus, when you find a city engineer monument, no one knows anything and you can never get to the incompetent land surveyor. They are allowed to continue creating problems. If the complaint is ever pursued, what happens? Nothing.

The private surveyor can spend thousands of dollars and be put out of business for simple contract disputes. Check around and see how many times this has happened?

Jim, over the last 30 years, I have had problems with some licensed surveyors who work for public agencies. Mostly over failing to file survey records, destroying monuments, and not signing documents.

I have filed a crateload of complaints against these people. How many of these complaints were pursued?

On the other hand, I get called every few months from private sector surveyors who are defending Board complaints, often spending tens of thousands of dollars to defend themselves. They usually involve client complaints. In a couple of instances, they have spent upward of $150,000. In one case, the Board was going to reprimand and fine a surveyor for misidentifying a survey monument. He noted it was set by a surveyor when it was actually set by an engineer. A simple typo. He spent $5000.00 to defend himself. The disgruntled client used that minor conflict as the basis for a Board complaint.

I know of numerous instances where a city surveyor was involved with the destruction of hundreds of survey monuments, something I think does much greater harm to the public. I filed half a dozen complaints and guess what happened. Not a darn thing.

If a private sector surveyor knowingly destroyed or removed a monument he/she would be put out of business after spending a ton of money.

An interesting article:

http://vicenticpas.com/wp-content/uploa ... -12-09.pdf

Public employee immunity needs to be revoked. I was involved with a company that pursued construction defect lawsuits. Of the defects I was told about; no fire blocks in the walls, missing fire block insulation between condo units and open attics to name a few, most would not have happened if the city/county building inspectors did their job. How does an inspector sign off framing with missing fire blocks? But only the builder could be sued and most of them had filed bankruptcy. Inc's disappearing on Fri and reopening on Mon under a new inc name is common place.

I was once threatened to be sued for wall footing being dug wrong if I wanted to pursue my extras for showing up and they weren't ready for the stakes they requested. I never staked the wall, they dug the trench off parking lot RG hubs and a RG bldg corner hub they found without laths describing the hubs that put a angle point in a straight wall. And the contractors estimator, who knew what happened, called me and asked why I wasn't bidding any jobs for them. LMAO

As opposed to immunity, a lot of it is incompetency. Because these folks are protected and unlike a private sector surveyor, they oversee hundreds if not thousands of surveys. By making them liable they can have their licensed revoked. Instead, the municipalities just shuffle them around to another place. A private sector surveyor can spend tens of thousands of dollars defending themselves for one bad marker and municipal employees can screw up hundreds or more and nothing is done. The laws are not fair in this regard.

The lack of govt employees being held responsible for actions is so rampant that I think that is seen by our youth and they now feel that no one is responsible for their actions.

As a side note, My son proudly received an honors degree from Fresno State. The Fresno State Alumni license plate frame that has been on his truck for ~18 years just went in the trash. It's unfortunate that professors that hit people in the head with steal bars and fowl mouthed ill mannered racists cannot be removed from a position of spreading their hatred into the minds of teenagers.

I would not call that a side note Sir. You made your point. I agree