California Surveyors Forums

Would anyone be willing to share an example of how they've documented a single line survey, and how they've explained on the Corner Record or Record of Survey that this is a single line survey only? I am trying to come up with wording to place on the face of the document. Something like:

"The purpose of this Corner Record/Record of Survey is to document the boundary survey we conducted along the west line of lot X. The other boundary lines of lot X were not included in the scope of this survey. The monuments set at or near the northwest and southwest corners of lot X are only set to monument the west line and are not set to delineate surveyed corner locations. These monuments were not set to indicate the maximum northerly and southerly extent of the west line of lot X. Additional surveying would need to be performed to determine the north and south lines of lot X, and how those lines relate to the monuments shown on this Corner Record/Record of Survey. In the case that the monuments set per this Corner Record/Record of Survey are found to be outside the boundary of lot X, then these monuments shall be considered witness points to the west line of lot X."

Comments and constructive criticism welcome.

This may sound obvious, but if you don't want to make a determination on the Northerly extent of the line, don't set a monument there at your approximate position. Instead bring it back 5' or whatever you need to cover the uncertainty and show a plus or minus dimension on the map or no dimension at all. I might use a darker distinct linetype and describe in legend, line surveyed by this map, all others shown for general orientation and are approximate only, something like that
To provide the mathematical relationship from your set points to other found monuments, show a tie line with bearing and distance from one set point to a found point and label "tie line only" or if you don't want a random line coming across the map (which is meaningless to anyone besides a surveyor) designate one of them as Point A the other as Point B and give the inverse in note form

No, no, no, no no! NO!

Do a complete survey and do not ever do something like this.

NO? NO!

NO!

Why not?

Not every client is a billionaire

If a client has a 100 acre parcel but is only concerned about one 200 foot section of line, we should just turn him away? Is that serving the public?

Is that what surveyor's do? Insist that someone pay for a bunch of work that they don't need? It's no wonder that folks are looking to a less expensive alternative like what Bloomberg describes.

I TOTALLY agree with Michael, you have to perform a thorough survey that includes ALL of the lines of the subject property and adjoining parcels/lots. etc.
Lots of things to look at!!!!!!!!

I am hesitant to say anything one way or another without knowing situation specifics and while also recognizing the endless complexities boundary determinations present.
However the following quote from the OP concerns me in that it indicates a lack of due diligence:
“In the case that the monuments set per this Corner Record/Record of Survey are found to be outside the boundary of lot X, then these monuments shall be considered witness points to the west line of lot X."

One cannot help but wonder how the West line was established. You cannot arbitrarily pick 2 spots to place monuments with your license number and call them the on West line of x. There has to be some reason you would identify a certain location to be the West line and place a monument (regardless of the pluss or minus of the north and south line). Anotherwords, your opinion as to why those monuments are placed on that line (hopefully after extensive research). That would be the evidence found during your field survey and used to help determine your opinion as to why you placed monuments with your license number there. That information would need to be present in the ROS.this example sounds like a ROD and not a corner record. Remember the purpose of a ROS is so that future surveyors can retrace and validate our work. If you can do that, then placing your monuments on the westerly line can be valid.

We try to do the best job we can for our clients, but if you can't survey it for the price needed to cover the cost, there is no choice but to turn it away. We cannot cut corners in determining boundary location.

You may not need to survey the entire parcel (2000ac for instance), but i would assume at that point you have extensivly surveyed each surounding line/angle point and can say with certainty that you are on the West line. I would also think you should know for certainty where the actual north and south corners are at that point. Then after proving your opinion, you can justify setting your tag. It is after all your license, that is just my oppinion.

Please excuse any typos. I'm typing on my phone.

Hey folks- Let's give the OP some respect and credit here, this post has nothing to do with whether you have done a sufficient amount of work to establish a particular line. It's about how to monument and depict a survey that is only of one line. There are plenty of situations where this could be applicable and is a perfectly fine thing to do.

At the risk of discretion, it sounds like the survey was done and was not a complete survey and the surveyor realizes he/she should have done a complete survey and now has to figure out how to wrap this up. There is only one answer, do a sufficient enough survey to assure the line is in the correct location. Yes, it may be costly but that is how lessons are learned. Whenever I am in court defending a surveyor who has been sued, I tell them it is better to take the day off and play golf and not make any money than it is to go to work and lose a lot of money.

Simply do it right and bid accordingly.

Olin, I am not trying to bash the OP in any way. I apologize if i came off that way. Im sure there is more to the story. All I am saying is that there is a reason why that that location was selected. Just be sure to use that evidence to show why you determined that location to be on the West line on your ROS.

I just can't help but keep wondering, if you don't know where the corners are, how do you know where the line is????

If there is still a need for the note after a full survey for some reason, the note is well written. Like steffan said, the note is a little concerning.

The county surveyor will give any additional comments after their review.

ekparian wrote:I just can't help but keep wondering, if you don't know where the corners are, how do you know where the line is????

I have seen situations where a line in a subdivision was easy to derive from existing monumentation but the rear lot corner fell on the subdivision boundary so while the lot line POB and the bearing was simple, a possible resolution of the exterior boundary (to determine the precise length) could involve resurveying a big portion of the subdivision as well as the adjoining subdivision and examination of junior/senior rights between the two.

Sometimes the old lady just wants to build a chicken coop. Witness corner and a note

David Kendall wrote:

ekparian wrote:I just can't help but keep wondering, if you don't know where the corners are, how do you know where the line is????

I have seen situations where a line in a subdivision was easy to derive from existing monumentation but the rear lot corner fell on the subdivision boundary so while the lot line POB and the bearing was simple, a possible resolution of the exterior boundary (to determine the precise length) could involve resurveying a big portion of the subdivision as well as the adjoining subdivision and examination of junior/senior rights between the two.

Sometimes the old lady just wants to build a chicken coop. Witness corner and a note

Agreed. It has been done without confusion of the intent.

Please do Not set sucker points near where you think the actual corners are (or the extension of that line)... line points are fine.

(the proposed boilerplate is confusing without a sketch or specifics. It is Not that complicated unless you make it so. No verbose note is needed or desired)

Perhaps clientele selection is at issue?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNQRqAoT-2c

Apples and oranges. Funny video though.

"I just can't help but keep wondering, if you don't know where the corners are, how do you know where the line is????"

Peter and David have it right. Think a more modernly created line that is relatively easy to establish intersecting an older more ambiguous line like a rancho, section line or exterior of ancient subdivision perhaps where there are historical discrepancies in the record. 5x effort and cost to establish exact endpoint. Fleece them unnecessarily even though they have no interest in this particular area?

Like Peter said, the only problem with the OP approach is in the guessing of the endpoint and marking with a monument at the approximate intersection. Make it a line point and keep it away from all possible interpretations.

I too agree with you Olin, Peter and David. I too have encountered your scenario. I did what Michael suggested and did a complete survey, exaughsting my budget.

In my situation, I expanded my field search to the subdivision boundaries and ensured I set points on the subdivion boundary line at the interior lot corners.

My situation, I set all 4 corners (after looking for outer subdivision boundary corners) of the lot ensuring my 2 corners are on the subdivision boundary line.

We need to know more as to why the OP would want to do What they would do.

In my case, if I wasn't going to look for the outer subdivision corners for some reason, I would have done like you suggest and set line points dimensioned to the front of the lot and put a note on explaining why i didnt solve the endpoints. Again, in my opinion, the OP's note is stil a little concerning.

Also, if you re-read the subject line, this is a single line survey. It is one single line where neither the beginning nor end are known.

But to get back on topic...

As the OP originally asked, would any of you please share an example as to how you solved YOUR scenarios?
(My real learning has begun not long ago and I don't have any examples of one line surveys).

Since becoming licensed in 1980 I've done a handful of surveys where the client only wanted a single line located. But in each case I bid the job (and priced it accordingly) such that I resolved the entire parcel despite what the client asked for. (Surveyor knows best.) I set rebar at each end of the the line in question but showed the whole parcel on the map.

However, I can imagine running into a survey like the OP is doing. I would show (and explain) a fully resolved line position with two line points set. The resolution of said line should be bullet proof. Hard to get any more specific without knowing more about the OP's situation.

I can justify survey of only a portion of a parcel and have filed a map of only one line of a parcel, but i surveyed enough of the boundary to have a clear determination of that portion I surveyed. i.e. client owned 4000 ac, defined by the PLSS, he wanted to build a fence along a portion and the neighbor asked for verification of the portion adjoining the neighbor, who owned the 40 ac to the south. Absolutely no reason to survey the entire 4000 ac.
This is very common in rural areas on parcels over 5 ac.

Therefore without specifics, can't say it is good or bad.

My dad gave me several bits of advice over the years, two of which are applicable here (and two of my favorite):

“You need to be the one that knows more about that boundary than anyone else”
“You solve a boundary one line at a time”

Show us what is relevant to define the location of the line. Tell us the methods which you employed to solve your boundary. Show us the pedigree of what you measured.

Flame on...

By contract, I do one line surveys all the time. Situations where someone is doing an addition and pushing out toward minimum building setback on one side. These are usually standard size lots in old subdivisions in town. Of course, in reality, you have to figure out the whole block to get to that one line, but I always give them an option of surveying the entire property for a proportionally good value, this is just an upsell and extra cash in my pocket when they go for it.

Get the most money you can while also limiting your liability as much as possible. That's the name of the game. Use some creative thinking with your proposals and scope of work. Folks will be appreciative that you're respectful of their money and tailoring a scope to their needs. The OP has probably got it right but pull the pipe at approximate intersection, hold back on the line point and ditch the note

A primary rule in land surveying is you survey your line, last. In other words, you survey everything else first, and the line you are interested in, last. All of your boundary lines are defined by all of the neighboring properties. If you don't know where your neighbor's lines are, you cannot figure out where yours are. Yes, this may seem like a lot of work but this is how to survey. Do it right or don't do it at all.

Agreeing with Mr. Pallamary.

It has occurred to me from reading this post how big our "local minimum standards of practice" have gotten since the internet and boards such as this one. 4000 acre parcels in the desert too 4000 sq foot parcels in La Jolla. I think the key here is "minimum" and the word professional in our title. Believe me practicing my first 20 years in Southern Cal and my the next 12 in Southern Oregon has stretched the meaning of minimum to the maximum :).
Happy Friday, Jon

mpallamary wrote:A primary rule in land surveying is you survey your line, last. In other words, you survey everything else first, and the line you are interested in, last. All of your boundary lines are defined by all of the neighboring properties. If you don't know where your neighbor's lines are, you cannot figure out where yours are. Yes, this may seem like a lot of work but this is how to survey. Do it right or don't do it at all.

That is true. But it is also true that on face value of what was presented by the OP, there is nothing to indicate that he didn't consider the adjoining property with respect to the line being surveyed. I find it disturbing that folks would come to this forum to learn, share ideas and get feedback only to find themselves immediately criticized by others who don't know all of the facts.