California Surveyors Forums

Looking for a reality check here. I have always regarded the date in the Surveyor's Statement on both Final Maps and Parcel Maps to be the "date of survey". Recently some discussion has arisen, in my view due to the somewhat ambiguous way the statement is constructed, as to whether it could mean the "date of request" or "date of map preparation". In my view, this question is addressed by 66441, which reads "...His or her statement shall give the date of survey...". Inasmuch as the PM and FM statements are phrased similarly, this leads me to conclude that the date in both statements is intended to be the date of survey.

Am I missing something here? Thanks for your input!

hmmm... I have always taken Date of Survey to be the last day in the field.
Both "date of request" or "date of map preparation" could be quite a time difference

Thank you Peter,

That has always been my understanding as well.

"...a survey made by me or under my direction at the request of [client] in [month/year]..." would seem like the ..."at the request of..." is parenthetical and could be moved somewhere else.
I would prefer "...a survey made by me or under my direction in [month/year] at the request of..."

I agree Dave. I never really understood the date to be anything but the survey date, but recent discussions have revealed that some feel the phrasing of the statement leaves it somewhat ambiguous. At least it sounds like I am on the same page with folks so far.

Thanks for chiming in.

I would love a good seminar on English grammar at the next CLSA Conference! Even as I type this I get red squiggly lines under my text. If the subject is the map, one would think the date goes with the map. If the parenthesis are to be believed, its the date that the client authorized the work. And 66441 is clear, but it does say survey not field survey. For some reason I thought this went along with the change that required us to have written contracts in the LS Act. I like to put 3 dates on the map, the one in the sentence, a general date of field survey, office research etc. and the date I signed the map.

you should include paragraph usage in that seminar ;-)

The map represents a survey. Date of survey would have to be prior to drafting the map.

I agree the language is ambiguous, but I think it is important to consider the importance of the date. Does anyone care when the request was made? I think when the survey was done is more important, so you'll know what monuments were in existence at that particular time.

The language on its own is not ambiguous. It means the date that the person authorized the survey. That is the meaning of the words as written.

marchenko wrote:The language on its own is not ambiguous. It means the date that the person authorized the survey. That is the meaning of the words as written.

I think it can easily be looked at to mean the date represents when the survey was made - not the request. I can see it from both perspectives.

the statement has to do with "a survey", the other stuff is just stuff.

For myself, I agree with Dedkad that the date of survey is the date folks care about, not the date of request. If the sentence was constructed a bit better and unambiguously, we wouldn’t be having this discussion about semantics. What is convincing for me is 66441, which specifically requires the FM statement to include the date of survey. So for those who are putting the date of request, how do you satisfy this requirement, with two dates in the statement?

What Bruce Hall said.

The word ‘on’ pertains to a specific date while the word ‘of’ pertains to a more general time frame.

66441 states the Surveyor shall give "the date of the survey". As we know surveys don't occur on a date, they occur over a period of time (research, calculations and adjustments, field survey, conclusion, signing and stamping). Thus, the use of the word 'of'. For example, we declared our independence on the Fourth of July. On is the specific date, of is the larger time period (month).

66442.5 says 'on' rather than 'of' and it comes directly after 'name of person authorizing map'. The person authorizes the map on a date, at a moment in time. On a side note 66442.5 states authorizing map, (not survey).

This is evidenced by many maps that record where surveyors change the word in the surveyor's statement from 'on' to 'of' or 'during' or something that is a larger and more general time period. If they have to change the words then they are changing the meaning. They are moving the meaning from the person authorizing the map on a date, to the time frame of the field survey. Which is not what the law says.

There is nothing in the SMA that prevents a surveyor from adding another statement that addresses something that they feel 66441 compels them to do beyond 66442.5 That is why I place the month of survey on the map somewhere else and my surveyors statement complies with the law ( I hope).