California Surveyors Forums

It is imperative that CLSA gets involved in the site plans lawsuit. We must intervene as amicus curiae. The last time we did this, to the best of my knowledge, is when a lot line adjustment lawsuit arose in San Diego. Myself and others spent considerable time preparing our brief. As a result, we prevailed in an important lawsuit.

I believe the Executive Board should call an emergency session and agree to retaining a competent law firm to represent us.

We have lost GIS, GPS, and other associated practices. This is a proverbial line in the sand. If we lose this one, we are done. There is nothing left.

What is the board doing so far?

I do not know. One thing is certain, we cannot afford to sit on our hands!

I'll look into whether it is prudent to weigh in as amicus curiae in a District Court trial matter, or if it is more effective to await an appeal from that decision. To the extent that the Department of Consumer Affairs' counsel grapples with the underlying constitutional issues, it may sort itself out quickly. This has just been filed, and a fair amount of pre trial maneuvering will take place in order to establish jurisdiction for constitutional issues in dispute.

Thanks! I have extensive experience with the San Dieguito case.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/ ... merica.pdf

https://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/u ... us_plf.pdf

https://study.com/learn/lesson/amicus-c ... mples.html

Sounds like considering setting up the amicus curiae relationship would fall under the CLSA JPPLC Committee responsibilities. If this is going federal, perhaps NSPS can assist.

as an aside, I am poking at the research of who this attorney is:
Looks like that same attorney office was involved in this case, which got tossed out by the judge:

https://www.azmirror.com/blog/judge-tos ... licensing/
An unlicensed engineer started a company with "engineering" in it's name (not civil, apparently electrical, but I skimmed over that part).

Institute of justice is a "...The Institute for Justice, a libertarian, free-market legal advocacy organization that often opposes occupational licensing requirements..."

I agree.

If we do not stand up and defend our profession and protect the practice of land surveying, who will?

This is a wake up call.

It is my unwavering opinion, that at a minimum, CLSA should immediately seek legal counsel in this matter.


"A real party in interest is the person or entity who has the right to bring suit even though someone else would ultimately benefit from the suit if it is successful. For example, in In re. Semgroup Corp., a Texas Court of Appeals case, a widow and child were the real parties in interest in a wrongful death action trying to collect damages because of defendants alleged negligent killing of decedent-husband/father. That is, the widow and child have the right to sue defendants, but the ultimate beneficiary is decedent’s estate. In the context of trusts, a trustee may file suit against a person who damaged a building owned by the trust; the real party in the interest is the trustee, even though the trust beneficiaries ultimately benefit from the suit. Furthermore, many jurisdictions require that the suit be brought in the name of the real party in interest. For example, California Civil Procedure Code § 367 states that “[e] very action must be prosecuted in the name of the real party in interest, except as otherwise provided by statute.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/real_party_in_interest

Every action must be prosecuted in the name of the real party in interest, except as otherwise provided by statute.
Ca. Civ. Proc. Code § 367
Amended by Stats. 1992, Ch. 178, Sec. 10. Effective January 1, 1993.


https://gdandb.com/2021/11/02/an-identi ... spensable/

We should reach out to NSPS right away and engage their assistance and support. This is on their radar and it is an issue of national importance. Our dues go into NSPS. It is time to test our strength and solidarity.

Orange County chapter is going to be discussing this at our next board meeting this coming Tuesday and would welcome input from the professional community.
I also understand that our NSPS Liaison has the document in hand and will be having a discussion with the NSPS (had a brief email exchange about it this morning).

Our chapter board meetings are public, and I would invite all interested parties to attend this coming Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 5PM Pacific.
Orange County CLSA is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Join Zoom Meeting:
https://zoom.us/j/97422273832?pwd=STRDb ... 9GMS9aQT09

OC CLSA board meeting zoom link can also found on our website.
----------------------
Connie Barrett
OC-CLSA Secretary

This morning I have read the materials linked in the thread. I appreciate BPELSG pursued this matter. My thoughts on the topic have not gelled yet.

Quick take:

I do not think our community needs to do anything with this case.

In this instance, the facts and law stand on their own. There was a better plaintiff’s theory that I would not want introduced after or because our community intervened. Our intervention and opposition invite the counter opposition. There are some smart folks that are best on the sidelines.

The case was filed in federal court. In my experience, and more so, reputationally, the federal court is no nonsense, and this case should die a quick quite death.

I probably will not live long enough to ever say this again, but I believe BPELSG can handle this one.

Our community could use this opportunity to develop an educational outreach program to the planning departments of municipalities.

DWoolley

PS: I see the OC Chapter is looking at this now. Interesting.

DWoolley wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:52 am I do not think our community needs to do anything with this case.

In this instance, the facts and law stand on their own. There was a better plaintiff’s theory that I would not want introduced after or because our community intervened. Our intervention and opposition invite the counter opposition. There are some smart folks that are best on the sidelines.

The case was filed in federal court. In my experience, and more so, reputationally, the federal court is no nonsense, and this case should die a quick quite death.

This is in line with my thinking as well. I find that the news article and complaint are a bit dramatic and I will be very surprised if a federal court is compelled to intervene in a state's ability to regulate itself in this way.

At the end of the day it is only a $1000 fine. If Crownholm has produced 40000 site plans then he ought to be able to swing the payment and ply his trade in 49 other states

I might be more concerned with a potential state court interpretation but there does not appear to be a CA court case?

I would however, appreciate hearing the NSPS opinion on this

Our delegate to NSPS will be speaking to this issue at next week's annual meeting. Some other states have faced this dilemma before, and it should generate some discussion and options.
This complaint was filed in federal court due to constitutional issues.

If NSPS joins us and we prevail, because it is federal, it has huge implications. As to whether or not we should get involved, as with any legal issues I face in my business or in a personal matter, I check with my attorney.

That is what we should do. Get advice.

"Your silence gives consent." — Plato

Thanks. I needed to hear that thismorning.

"In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Nice! Made my day!

Clark, are you referring to the Stable Genius? LOL

Have a good weekend, all

Many people have attempted to define the word “profession.” Like all good words it has been overworked and extended to apply to such words as “professional boxer” and “professional soldier.” A similar situation exists with the word “engineer” as adopted by the A. F. of L. in their “operating engineers” union. The better term would have been “engine operators,” since that is what they are.
When I speak of the professions I mean the higher sense, such as lawyer, clergy, doctors, and educators. To be a professional man certain requisites are often present, among them:

(1) Superior knowledge in his field;
(2) Ability to express learned opinions
(3) Remuneration for his services;
(4) Liability for errors.

- Curtis M. Brown
Professional Land Surveyor
San Diego, California

Ability to communicate effectively. Part of the definition of any profession is that its members have a superior education that is used for the benefit of others. If a person is unable to effectively communicate his knowledge to others, he will be unable to benefit others. All of the knowledge in the world will not aid a surveyor on the witness stand if he is unable to communicate effectively to the judge and convince him that his methods are correct. A person can have a superior fund of knowledge, and he can have a superior ability to think, but they are of little value if he is unable to communicate so as to convince others.

- Curtis M. Brown
Professional Land Surveyor
San Diego, California