Monuments and Monument bond

PLS7393 · Post by **PLS7393** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:02 am

One last thing Good (and others),
Gary mentioned it, but do not forget to send the governing agency written notice that you have satisfied Section 66497 of the Subdivision Map Act. It states "Within five days after the final setting of all monuments has been completed, . . . "

If you do not notify the governing agency, then they do not know the corners have been set per the map, and available to field verify. If construction were to start (I know this project is on hold) and your corner (s) were destroyed before the agency were to field verify them, you would be responsible to reset the corners without that letter.

This gets left off a majority of surveyors list of things to do towards the end of a project, be it a parcel map, or tract map. Parcel maps are easier to control than tract maps due to tract maps defer the setting of monuments per Section 66496.

Section 66496 is pertaining the interior monuments only, ie. street mons and lot corners.
Too many surveyors include the exterior (boundary) corners as part of this, but in my opinion (per the SMA), the boundary corners should be set when the map files, send your governing agency a letter stating the exterior corners have been set. Then two years later (or when you defer the setting of monuments), finish with your interior corners and send a second letter stating the interior corners have been set.

goodgps · Post by **goodgps** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:34 am

Keith,

you are correct, Boundary corners are to be set when or before the subdivision map is recorded. This goes soft for a great deal of jobs, but the SMA is pretty clear on this point.
In Fresno County, they go over the top in requiring the surveyor to set "durable" monuments which they spec out as an iron pipe set in concrete.
The public works dept then field verify these before oking the map for filing.

Is there really such a thing as a "durable monument"

Thanks

"good"

E_Page · Post by **E_Page** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:15 pm

Mt. Rushmore is pretty durable. But even that needs routine maintenance.

PLS7393 · Post by **PLS7393** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:44 pm

goodgps wrote:Keith,

you are correct, Boundary corners are to be set when or before the subdivision map is recorded. This goes soft for a great deal of jobs, but the SMA is pretty clear on this point.
In Fresno County, they go over the top in requiring the surveyor to set "durable" monuments which they spec out as an iron pipe set in concrete.
The public works dept then field verify these before oking the map for filing.

Is there really such a thing as a "durable monument"

Thanks

"good"

Durability is only a term and relative to the Standard of Care for that region.
A durable monument in Southern California does not include an iron pipe with plastic plug stamped XXXX, but in other parts of California where wild fires are less common, you readily see plastic caps. More power to southern CA for noticing the non-durable issues with plastic plugs.

Now go into a dense housing project and rebuild a house where the city requires the property line be staked, and I would say rebar with a plastic cap stamped XXXX would be considered a durable monument.

goodgps · Post by **goodgps** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:03 am

I saw a brass tag flip a D8 one time. . . .those things are really tough ;^}

Seriously though, copper or brass tags hold up well IF they are attatched to the pin or pipe with another "erodingless" material.
It does no good to place a nice metal tag on a pipe by affixing it with a brad driven into a piece of wood in the center of the pipe or by using wire which rusts away.

Best ones I've seen for longevity, were copper strips brazed to the side of the pipe.

Speaking of tags on the side of the monument, How often do we see notes on maps that state "found XXmonument with no tag" ONLY to find later that the tag is intact and legible on the side of the iron ?

VANCE · Post by **VANCE** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:12 am

Over the weekend I found a 3/4" iron pipe with two brass tags smashed together from two different surveyors.

PLS7393 · Post by **PLS7393** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:31 am

VANCE wrote:Over the weekend I found a 3/4" iron pipe with two brass tags smashed together from two different surveyors.

Only two? Your doing good! Wait till you see four tacks in one plastic plug, or three different tags on one pipe. Then we can discuss multiple pipes for the same corner, I think I've seen four.

E_Page · Post by **E_Page** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:05 am

In some areas back east, it is customary (perhaps law) that if you accept a pipe for your survey, you add your tag to it. So finding 4 tags on a pipe, rather than being an oddit or a point of confusion, can lend additional credibility to the pipe.

VANCE · Post by **VANCE** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:03 am

Two tags double the credibility
Three tags triple the credibility
Four tags quadruple the credibility
Five tags ????

E_Page · Post by **E_Page** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:36 pm

Shown on one RS, credibility?
Two RSs, triple the credibility?
Three Rss, quadruple the credibility?
...

Kind of a silly line of questioning, don't you think.

Not all states have mandatory filing laws. Here we review previous surveys in the area and get a feel for the previous acceptance of the monuments we encounter. How do you do that where maps might not have been filed?

No it doesn't double, triple, etc. the credibility of the point, but each tag does add to the pipe's reputation as an accepted point the same as if it was shown as such on multiple RSs.

VANCE · Post by **VANCE** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:43 pm

VANCE wrote:Two tags double the credibility
Three tags triple the credibility
Four tags quadruple the credibility
Five tags ????

I'll never try to be funny or sarcastic again.

E_Page · Post by **E_Page** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:00 pm

Sorry. I wasn't sure if you were trying to be funny or just sarcastic. So don't pout about it. Just put one of them smileys at the end next time and I'll know your just kidding.

VANCE · Post by **VANCE** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:42 pm

Never have do it before so here it goes :) or ;{)

VANCE · Post by **VANCE** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:47 pm

Sorry. I wasn't sure if you were trying to be funny or just sarcastic. So don't pout about it. Just put one of them smileys at the end next time and I'll know your just kidding.

:(

Ian Wilson · Post by **Ian Wilson** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:47 pm

Don't worry, Vance. I managed to con Evan into having lunch at a Thai restaurant in Roseville. He's not a very adventurous dinner and I think the "spicy" food upset his system.

Oh, for Evan: ;^) Luv ya, mannn

So, RobCT, where are WE going for lunch?

goodgps · Post by **goodgps** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:21 pm

you. Evan, spicy food ? all in th same small room together ?
Ian, you're a braver man that I

I'd say that act is triple credibility :~}

E_Page · Post by **E_Page** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:18 am

I'd say that we're getting wll off topic, but yesterdays lunch was a MONUMENTAL occasion, as we BONDED, discussing highly important professional issues.

For Good: I ate my share of spicy food when I was younger. Now, I enjoy it if I eat it, as I'm eating it, but I end up having Tums for my next meal. That kind of takes the enjoyment out of it.

goodgps · Post by **goodgps** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:03 pm

Good news !

The City agency has agreed to beging payment on the monuments we set for the abandon subdivision.
The money is short of our fee, however, they are working on getting that remainder amount to us by February.

With these tough times, we need all the change we can get.

I'm thinking of going out to the intersections to the little gravelly areas where cars dont drive and look for any change accumulated there. I almost got busted scraping change out of the wishing well in downtown, last night. !!!

Sharon D. Secrets