contract-shoulda known better

[mpallamary]

you can email me at mpallamary@pipeline.com

Maybe we should chat offline.

[mpallamary]

See the attached.

[E_Page]

Before you offer your services as a contract party chief, you had better check with BPELSG Staff first. I'm betting that they would tell you that doing so is a violation in that as an unlicensed survey tech (party chief), you are not authorized to offer surveying services to anyone except as an employee under the supervision of a person properly licensed to survey.

Call the Board and ask for Dallas, or email him with the question. His email can be found on the BPELSG Contact Info web page.

As to the aiding and abetting thing, that you didn't know that they did not have a licensee on staff doesn't matter, legally. Those who could enforce the law against you might take it into consideration and call it a learning experience for you with the loss of income being sufficiently educational. If you have not been on their radar for previous violations, and especially if you call them now for some guidance on the matter going forward, I doubt that they would do anything more regarding the recent aiding and abetting beyond a verbal warning and friendly advice about earning income as an unlicensed party chief going forward.

If you have been the subject of any previous complaints, this situation has the potential to get worse for you before it gets better. Whether or not you are trying to become licensed, but particularly if you have that goal in mind, this would be a good time for you to get a recent copy of the PLSA and Board rules (both can be downloaded from BPELSG website) and review them particularly for 1) what you are authorized to do without a license, 2) the business and contracting requirements, 3) various requirements relating to mapping and monumentation, and 4) the sections describing the second level licensing exam.

If you plan to continue offering your services as an unlicensed contract employee for survey work, you will eventually get yourself in trouble.

[TIB]

Maybe I should be more clear.

I Have License since 1986 it is valid

TIB

[TIB]

Evan, sound advice, but I have LS and have read the rules carefully. My requirement of written contract does not apply if they have license. That seems clear.
see 8759-b-4-b.
But if they don't? I rendered services to firm that offered and procured the work. I thought, assumed, expected, believed, are required to,
have license. It is reasonable to believe they had one.
Should I have checked? For sure, yeas, without a doubt, no question. But I didn't. Am I guilty? Have I violated LS act?
Is is my responsibility-duty-requirement to verify they have license when I have reasonable expectation they do?
If I don't check and they don't have one am I guilty? Does 8759-b-4-b still apply?
I didn't know. How is that aid and abet? If they broke the rules why do I have to go down with them as a result?

TIB

[bryanmundia]

I guess my question TIB is who signed the work product? If you were working as a contracted employee of said Networking firm, shouldn't you have done what any good field crew would have done which is process your data, run your field to finish and then hand it off to a draftsman to finish the map? As a technicality, you aren't on the hook yet because you haven't truly been paid (Section 8759(b)(1)) but if you are seeking payment then you may run into issues. The rhetoric of "I thought they had a surveyor on staff" is kind of like saying "I thought the speed limit was 80", ignorance and lack of knowledge (i.e. I didn't know) does not evade you from the law. The burden of proof in this case is on you I believe if you were to be taken to court.

The reason this would be considered aiding and abetting is because of Section 8725 which states: "Any person practicing, or offering to practice, land surveying in this state shall submit evidence that he or she is qualified to practice and shall be licensed under this chapter.

It is unlawful for any person to practice, offer to practice, or represent himself or herself,as a land surveyor in this state, or to set, reset, replace or remove any survey monument on land in which he or she has no legal interest, unless he or she has been licensed or specifically exempted from licensing under this chapter."

Essentially you are helping a company procure land surveying services who are not licensed or allow to do so.

[TIB]

I signed work product. I sent them copy for review prior to filing
I am not employee.
Having a license is a reasonable expectation. 80mph is not.
When you go to doctor do you call medical board to verify license? If doc is a quack and screws up your surgery, is it your problem since you didn't check?
How did I aid and abet? To aid and abet there must be knowledge and intent.
I did not help them procure work. They procured work before contacting me. They procured the work. I did it for them.

TIB

[E_Page]

My mistake on the license. With that correction, Bryan is right. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Many criminal violations require intent to have violated the law be proven for the violation to stand, others do not. Most civil torts don't require a specific intent. Those that don't require a showing of intent can be based on the negligence of the violator.

A "networking firm" is simply a euphemism for "broker". Most brokers do not have a properly licensed person on staff, much less in responsible charge of the work. You filed a CR and presumably signed & stamped it yourself. That the original arrangements didn't specify that you were to provide your raw data, or provide drawings with another licensee's name & license # on them for his/her review should have been an obvious clue.

When you go to a doctor's office, if you look around, somewhere will be the State license to practice posted in some publicly viewable location, often near the reception desk or sometimes in the exam room. Licensees of BPELSG are similarly required to post our licenses at our place of business where they can be viewed by those doing business with us. As for looking to see if that license is posted and valid at the doctor's office, a good many people do that. I don't typically, but many of my older relatives have gotten in the habit of doing so.

But as I said before, and it's still valid as a licensed person going to the Board for advice. If you go to them and admit, "I did something stupid and learned my lesson", they will most likely take the lack of intent, the fact that you learned what you did wrong, and the intent to get additional advice in order to avoid any similar violations in the future into account and decline to take any formal action against you. In fact, they might seek your help in going after the broker. All that is assuming that you have no previous complaint history which might cause them to believe that you were trying to skirt the law on the written contract matter and simply got screwed while working with a broker that you shouldn't have been helping.

If you have no previous blemishes on your record, they will probably consider your story credible. Not very bright, but credible. In that case, you would likely get a verbal or possibly a written warning. If you do have a history that has put you on their enforcement radar, your story may not be viewed as credible and I would expect that at the minimum, you would probably get a written warning and might get a nominal fine.

My advice to you is to not to develop or try to hold on to excuses that several have said or suggested are not likely to hold up, go to BPELSG for the advice you still need, take your lumps and move on a little wiser. If you go to BPELSG and deal with them prior to going to Small Claims, you will have that issue and potential threat out of the way and dealt with. The SC Court is not likely to be as concerned about you working without a written contract as they are with the evidence that an actual agreement existed and that the broker received their benefit and then refused to keep their end of the bargain.

If you can show the integrity to go to BPELSG before they come after you and clear the matter with them, I'd think that would be a big plus for you at Small Claims. But there are time limits on making a claim in SC court, so I also advise taking care of this sooner rather than later. another reason to take care of it sooner rather than later is that Ric Moore and or Dallas Sweeney have probably already found this thread and may be following it with interest.

I assume that TIB are your initials. With that and knowing which year you received your license, it wouldn't take hardly any effort at all for one of them to figure out who you are and decide to give you a call. Best call them first.