Professional Ethics

[PE_PLS]

I work for a company where the owner takes the position of only filing a record of survey when he puts points in the ground with his cap on it, and never filing anything if he just resolves boundaries without marking them. Probably isn't the only guy doing this out there - lol. I really didn't think much about it until I became licensed myself, and now I appreciate why this shouldn't be done. I still work for the company in the same position I had before I was licensed and the owner still is in responsible charge for all the survey work done.

Now that I am licensed do I have a responsibility to correct this. If I tell the owner that this isn't right and that he needs to change the way he does business and he says no way do I have an obligation as a LS to stop working for the company?

[Ric7308]

I do not believe that you have any "obligation" to stop working at the company. I believe it is in your (and the owners) best interest to continue to convey your interpretation in a professional manner as a licensed peer until you see positive results. I believe that action represents more of a professional and ethical "obligation" than leaving the company.

Reading your thread did bring a few questions to mind that I asked myself and that you may want to consider asking yourself...

1. How does the owner's interpretation affect the interest of your firm's clients?

2. Does this interpretation create or perpetuate a negative or positive effect on your client's ownership and/or property rights?

3. If the owner is in responsible charge, and assuming that includes signing and sealing all documents, maps and reports, how involved are you in the workflow process? If any licensing actions were brought against the owner, could your involvement be considered as aiding and abetting?

4. Do any of the clients view you as the primary contact or representative of the firm, thereby not having any direct contact with the owner?

5. How do you think the firm's professional liability carrier would view a potential situation of coverage if they were aware that the owner allegedly demonstrated licensing violations with respect to covered services?

Just a few thoughts that immediately came to mind. We are licensed to protect the public while performing our professional services. Just because a licensee is not in responsible charge at a given time, does not necessarily relinguish that licensee of that duty.

Hope this helps your situation,
Ric

[Ian Wilson]

Ask the owner why there are the two separate sub-paragraphs to §8762 of the PLS Act.

Why did the legislators enact both §8762(b)4 and §8762(b)(5)?

One refers to SET points an lines and the other refers to ESTABLISHED points and lines. What is the difference? Why are BOTH sections in the Act?

[PLS7393]

Ask the owner why there are the two separate sub-paragraphs to §8762 of the PLS Act.

Why did the legislators enact both §8762(b)4 and §8762(b)(5)?

One refers to SET points an lines and the other refers to ESTABLISHED points and lines. What is the difference? Why are BOTH sections in the Act?

Thats my interpretation too Ian.

Great info Ric, and I've seen a number of firms with similar practice, where the principle signs all documents. This is typically with larger firms.

If the firm is small to medium size, I would think the principle has more hands on, and more knowledge of what is taking place.

[bruce hall]

and not materials such as wood or cloth or metal. One could argue that a tenth in 200 feet really doesn't affect the "heart of the matter" were one foot certainly would.

The other portion you are refering to reads "material evidence OR physical change....." that doesn't show up on a map of record. Some would certainly think that if the records show a one inch iron pipe at the corner of the lot and there ain't one now, well something has changed. But then there are others that think that just because the pipe to the Lot that I am staking is gone, why should I file a map if I don't set anything? Look up the definition of material. I'm gonna play pool.

[bruce hall]

of California prepared a booklet titled "Guide to the Preparation of Records of Survey and Corner Records". (I wish I would learn how to scan this stuff) On page 9 it states that material evidence has being defined as "evidence of sufficient import as to effect the outcome of a court case, and includes, but is not limited to, the particular items mentioned in Section 8764 of the PLSA. This section requires that the record of survey show monuments both found and set, however, the resetting of a previously recorded monument which has become dilapidated would not in and of itself require the filing of a new record of survey but merely a corner record. As long as the purpose and functional identity of the previously recorded monument is maintained by the new monument, and as long as the record (of the monument) is not abrogated by the new monument, there would be no need for a new record of survey."

Also it states that "Physical change would apply to topographic or landmark features of importance to the survey which, if not noted, may adversely affect the interpretation of the survey. In regard to monuments, physical change would include the discovery of any evidence pertinent to a monument(except as discussed above) which differs from the previouse existing record of said monument."

Every time I see material I think "important". If it isn't material. then I better hope that the judge thinks the same way.

This booklet was submitted in 1989 and revised in 2001. In the preface they indicate that the stuff in there is just a "guideline". CLSA, CALTRANS, County Engineers Association of California and the League of California Surveying Organizations participated in the preparation of this thing. Anyway it can be good reading, at least it gives me some idea of what someone, who is supposed to know something, thinks.

The filing of Corner Records for the reset monuments should solve the situation if you reset it. A corner record will not solve the situation if the monument is missing. If it's not important(material), don't let anybody know that it's gone.

Well there's 30 minutes that I'll never see again.

[Jim Frame]

The 2000 version of the Guide can be downloaded here:

http://ladpw.org/apps/Redir.cfm?URL=/SU ... %20Records

Line breaks might muck up that link, so you can also access the document via this one:

http://tinyurl.com/5wtsey

[bruce hall]

move Jim. Well done.