todays clients

[goodgps]

This is how Our profession is viewed . . . . .

I local land owner called for line stakes because he is building a new fence.
He explained how much he is paying for the fence and that he needs a survey to be certain that his new expensive fence is NOT over the property line.
Seeing that his property had been Surveyed, with a proper Parcel map having been filed, I offered a cost to do the survey. The cost was solow, that I really bit my lip doing so, but then again . . . .we need the money to stay in business.

The Client hit the roof stating that that cost is waaay too high.
He decided to call around.

Later that day, he called back and wished to hire me to do the job.

I agreed, however, on the condition that he pay me immediately after the line stakes were placed.

The Client then made this statement; "will this be a good survey?" "if its wrong, I want to be able to go back on someone."

Even though a big RED FLAG went up with this guy, I explained that I would check a number of other survey points in the area to verify that his monuments actually matched the recorded Parcel Map.

being assured, he scheduled the job for the next day and said he will have a check ready.

I stayed late, did the research, calcs and prepared for the field.
The next day . . . .this clown cancelled the job. !!! Truck was loaded and we were ready to go. I had to pay my helper for a partial day.

The lesson learned here, is there are LOTS of us desperatly needing money to survive. We get screwed during these tough times.

When Good times are here, I NOW feel very justified in getting the highest price for my service.

Uncle Sam will take his share and a half . . . .for sure,
This is the only way I see a ballance in the economic pendulum.

any thoughts ??

[Stan_K]

Good,

I understand your pain, we've all been there. We have a cancellation clause in our contract. We are running 50-50 in collecting the research, comps, and other fees when the Client cancels at the last minute.

Stan

[goodgps]

Thanks Stan,
My big lesson learned (relearned) today, is NOT to start anything without an agreement for services in place. And hopefully a retainer too.

Shame on me for jumping in the swimming pool before testing the water.

That being said, I know there are many wonderful people out there who will honor their request and also pay for the service.
Just like our LAWS of the LAND . . . . they are written for the dishonest, but the Honest must suffer also.

Dh

[land butcher]

Sometimes you just never know.
And it really hurts when you give them a price that they come back to after shopping around.
Residentual lot surveys can be a real PITA.
Once I had a woman call in a panic after a rain storm. The hill belong to a adjoiner next to her dwy had washed down and blocked her dwy and she need a survey to mark the PL for the ins co. So I gave her a price and made up a contract and met her the next am. She took the contract and told us to proceed. Then didn't want to pay. Said it was too expensive and called another surveyor and she said he gave her a lower price. Ended up with 3 trips to small claims and a threat to go after her wages to get paid.

Another time we went out and I told the client it was in a bad area for survey mons. We found nothing, old street with no mons or ties, fences didn't match map distances etc. After 3 hours I offered the client a reduced rate and told him a survey would be VERY expensive. He agreed, then his wife came out with the checkbook and tried to get me to agree to half of what her husband agreed to. Then the check was written on a account that they only put money in when they wanted to. Finally the OC district attorney has a bad check office and they made him pay, plus they charged him a fee too.

Two bad out of about 8 or 10 so I guess thats not too bad.

[Sunburned_Surveyor]

I've been stuck this way before. Last time it happened it was a contractor that begged me to be put on the schedule. (This was obviously when times were still good.)

The day we were supposed to go do the job (after the points were calculated and the trucks were loaded) he called to tell me he had found someone for cheaper. That is the last time I did any serious amount of work on a project before I had money in my hand.

Just a couple of months ago I spent a few days of research preparing a proposal for a large job we were approached about. The client had completed the first phase of the project with another company, and told us they were looking for someone else on the second phase. Turns out they were just checking the first company's price for the second phase of the work. That's the last time I do that. The next time someone want's me to spend a week putting together a proposal, I'm getting some money up front. If they don't want to put down a deposit, they aren't serious.

I would have spent a couple hours looking at the project and told the client what I thought of the first companies price as a professional courtesy, if he had been honest with me. He wasted a lot of my time, and some of his own.

Bottom line...show me the money. If people aren't willing to do this up front we should be suspicuous.

When was the last time someone put a couple of grand on the line because of your verbal commitment? Doesn't happen much.

The Sunburned Surveyor (PLS 8489)

[NickL]

His response is not surprising given how few laymen understand what goes into a survey, in terms of time, cost, and liability. It's unfortunate that his conscience allowed him to entertain another bid (or perhaps a friend of a friend..) after giving you a verbal agreement and scheduling the work.

I wonder if he had any idea that you had to spend a couple hours preparing for the survey? Sorry to hear you got burned, Goods =(

[bruce hall]

there is nothing new under the sun, except maybe laser scanners and the software that goes with it. This scenario that you have posted has been going on ever since I was a kid, and that's been a while. Not all the time, but every now and again this will happen if I/you/everybody am/are/is not careful.

It amazes me that it hasn't happened to you before.

[goodgps]

David . .
Yes this was indeed a very cheap lesson . . . 49 minutes of my time,
I had employees who spent more time in the bathroom than that.

I was going to install a lap top with clear wire and a server link in there and set up a special rate for the client.

dave h

[Gary O]

"....and set up a special rate for the client. "


No good deed goes unpunished.

Money is sincerity.

[goodgps]

Sorry Bruce,
I didnt catch your response . . .
YES !!!! this sort of thing has gone on since my very first job in 1989.

The point I am lamenting about . . . is that NEVER before, in any economy, has there been such a rash of such cancellings.

Last week, EVERY job cancelled.

I think raising this scenerio, also heightens all of our awareness as to ballancing the desperate need for money, with the professionalism that we should operate.

Nick L 's point about general layman's lack of knowledge of our profession, will NEVER be fully resolved, even if we are ALL degree'd.
People all understand Architecture and Engineering.
FACE IT !
Most people have more appreciation for a good plumber or mechanic over someone just coming out to show them where to build their fence !!!

We take our trash cans to the curb for the garbage man, I seldom have a client move "stuff" away from a fenceline, or clear his "burn pile" just because we are Surveying that day.

We are NOT equivalent to Doctors . . . .We are more like Chef's
Customers want great service at a cheap price . . . just like they want a great meal at the best price . . . and they dont have to eat at our place. . .when the place down the street is offering a special.

I will get retainers and contracts or simply close shop.

Hey ! anybody know of a good restaurant ?

Dave H

[land butcher]

Hey ! anybody know of a good restaurant ?


Phillipes, in LA 10cent coffee

[pls7809]

One of my buddies' in-laws has owned and operated Philippes since 1927 or something like that. His wife works there doing the book keeping. My buddy is actually in the surveying industry and has an LSIT. His wife's grandfather just passed away a couple of weeks ago. He married into the family and took over the business in the 50's. Her father and uncle have been running it since the mid-80's.

Also, my dad asked my mom's father for her hand in marriage at Philippe's in 1967. They've been married since 1968.

Double dipped pork sandwich w/ the home made spicy mustard, cole slaw and a slice of boysenberry pie.

[land butcher]

One of my buddies' in-laws has owned and operated Philippes since 1927 or something like that. His wife works there doing the book keeping. My buddy is actually in the surveying industry and has an LSIT. His wife's grandfather just passed away a couple of weeks ago. He married into the family and took over the business in the 50's. Her father and uncle have been running it since the mid-80's.

Also, my dad asked my mom's father for her hand in marriage at Philippe's in 1967. They've been married since 1968.

Double dipped pork sandwich w/ the home made spicy mustard, cole slaw and a slice of boysenberry pie.

My dad took me there in the 50s and we've been going ever since. The picture over the door to the kitchen of Custer, I had one of the originals of that. It got destroyed so now I have a reprint

[Anthony Maffia]

I compare lot surveying to rebuilding a transmission. The owner should pay $150 for diagnostics, which will be applied to the service call. Signature & deposit first, otherwise he/she doesn't have anything on the line.

I don't get why people balk at $1000 in professional services, to install a $5000 fence, when they are willing to pay sooooo muuuuch for automotive repair.

We seriously have an image problem.

In the future, I'm going to try and include 40% 'magic' in my client consultations and education.

[E_Page]

Diagnostics? Service call? So we're now mechanics or appliance repairmen?

How about the 5 or 10 minutes spent on the phone to get enough info to do the initial research to prepare an estimate is free, and not plan to go out to the field, or do all the necessary pre-field prep until you have a signed contract? If the person on the other end wants to continue to squeeze info out of you, then invite them to come in for a consultation at your regular hourly rate.

That's how other consulting professionals handle it. I'd rather be seen as more in the category of, and practice as a consulting professional than as the Maytag repairman of fence alignment.