Centerline Ties

[E_Page]

Are these points being destroyed or disturbed by construction activities associated with your PM, or are you just rehabbing some monuments that you found?

[bruce hall]

me that you file the things in both places. You got a monument of a different character at the intersections, nothing verses something, and you are setting accessories(spelling) to something.

sounds like you are spending more time on this trying not to file something than it would to just file it.

[E_Page]

Yep. Since the map has recorded without showing these monuments/ties, CRs are in order.

I was under the same impression as Steve, that the PM had not yet recorded.

[E_Page]

Ahah! No.

[pls7809]

I think CR's need to filed no matter what. If ties aren't in the COA then, to me, they don't need to be filed at the city. He could do the CR and send the city a photocopy of the CR after it's filed as a courtesy.

[pls7809]

The PLS act says nada about "centerline ties". There was a thread a little while back where Dave Woolley pointed that out. Can't find the thread though. If you can find that thread there might be some info in there about this subject as well.

[Dave Lindell]

If the first source for research for a typical surveyor is the city, then file them with the city.

There are many cities here in Los Angeles County that are the first source: Burbank, Glendale, City of Los Angeles, others I may not know about.

There are also cities in Orange County that are the first source: Brea, for example.

A courtesy copy to the County wouldn't hurt, and may cover your ..., well never mind.

How much work can it be to print out another copy of the Corner Record?

(Since Los Angeles County provides the forms free it is even easier!.)

[subman]

Here is the link to that previous post which I started and several of you chimed in on:

http://www.californiasurveyors.org/clsa ... rline+ties

[mpallamary]

The primary purpose of filing a Corner Record is to perpetuate the location of found monuments, thus assuring that future surveyors are able to relocate the associated monument. The reason surveyors either file or record their survey is because the survey is placed into the public record and the methodolgy used is standardized under a codified process. If nothing else, the name of the licensed surveyor who conducted the work is memorialized.

When records are filed with a city engineer or county engineer, there are no assurances that the records will be adequately preserved nor are there any uniform methods of indexing. Centerline swing ties are like bearing trees; they are accessory monuments as soon as you tie them out. You, as the surveyor, are the one who assigns value to the reference monument(s).

The use of the Corner Record has been considerably liberalized across the state to allow for the inclusion of more information than originally contemplated. It is a valuable tool and one that should be utilized at every opportunity.

As an aside, there is one particular city in San Diego County wherein the controlling field books for the centerline ties were thrown out because "no one used those old books."

When in doubt, file and if unsure, file.

Good luck!

[mpallamary]

Also see 8773(C) of the LSA. Also check out the attached as it might be beneficial.

[bruce hall]

8773(c) is a "may", not a june or july or a shall. It might be nice if it was a "shall" but it isn't. Maybe it should be, but I never know how far things will go when the wording(or in this case one word) of a law is changed.

Probably the biggest snafu with your whole scenario Greg, is that somebody set some monuments at the centerline intersections and they don't appear on a map anywhere, and it sounds like you might have even found them along with the ties. AND YOU KNOW ABOUT IT.

"I didn't set them, I just found them. And besides they aren't my tags anyway. And another thing, I sent the ties to the city. Go talk to city surveyor/engineer."

[Steve Martin]

Greg,

Does this whole arguement revolve around chiseled cross "centerline ties"?
If you guys are setting tagged "centerline ties" I have to believe that you would be filing corner records.

If you are setting some other type of monument that does not meet the requirements of 8772, where is the provision in the LS Act that allows for this second class of property reference points?

[Anthony Maffia]

An amended parcel map would also suffice, easy to draft, no signatures by owners, and ime cheap to process & file. Depends on the jurisdiction.

[Dave Lindell]

I hope you are talking about Los Angeles (abbreviated L.A.), of which I know something, and not Lousiana.

Yes, Los Angeles has had curb ties for over a hundred years. Book 1, Page 1 is at Yale and Alpine streets in what is now Chinatown. Los Angeles is renown for its survey control. "Centerline" notes show all distances out/in to the given point(s), angles to other points/intersections, ties (usually two pair of tangent ties with one being a spike for later use as a bench mark), often angles from the cneterline to the tie (for use in street topography surveys), and a reference to older field books to maintain the pedigree.

I was spoiled working there.

They are the "keeper of the records" within the city limits, all 454+ square miles of it.

New subdivisions rrequire "P.E." ties (Private Engineer) for all intersections and tract lines. City crews verify the ties are set before the survey bond is released (It was $1000 plus $350 per point at one time).

East Los Angeles is in unincorporated territory of the County of Los Angeles, not in the City. Indiana Street is the dividing line.

Any points set today require a tag; any tagged point requires a Corner Record.

I find and tie-out many points and reset them in the found position by my ties without having an opinion to their validity. I'm just perpetuating what I find.