role of the surveyor

[dmi]

I post the quote below, in order to prompt discussion on the topic of the role of the surveyor.

“We have had occasion, in several instances, to point out that a surveyor cannot be allowed, under any circumstances, to fix private rights or lines by any theory of his own. Before a surveyor's evidence can be received at all, it must be connected with a starting point or other places called for by the grants under which the parties claim. His duty is neither more or less than to Measure geometrically in accordance ~with those data, and his science goes no further. It is not his business to decide the questions of law, or to pass upon facts that belong to the tribunal dealing with the decision of facts. His testimony, as a man of science, is never receivable except in connection with the data from which he surveys, and if he runs lines they are of no value unless the data are established from which they are run, and those must be distinctly proven, or there is nothing to enable anyone to judge what is the proper result.â€￾
-Jones v. Lee, 77 Mich 43.

[land butcher]

Sounds like lawyer talk to me, reasserting their domain.

But I agree if there is a discrepancy that requires legal resolve we can only present our findings.

[E_Page]

This reply from Epoch Date on the Beer Legs forum:

The actual reference is JONES V. LEE, 77 MICH 35 (43 N.W. 855)
The critical issue here is that the surveyor came up with his own basis for how to resolve a riparian boundary, and after doing so failed to supply data to back up his determination.
That is why the reference states “…to fix private rights or lines by any theory of his own…â€￾
Since the surveyor didn’t provide the data, his determination is solely his unsubstantiated opinion, and cannot be admitted (or reviewed) by the court.
If the surveyor had supplied data to the court, it could have been reviewed, and either approved or rejected.
As to the reference “It is not his (the surveyor’s) business to decide the questions of law, or to pass upon facts that belong to the tribunal dealing with the decision of facts.â€￾ This is a true statement. Surveyors research and recover fact evidence, review said facts, and apply existing law to our determination. We are not deciding questions of law, rather applying law to our surveys.







The statement you cherry picked seems to imply that a surveyor's only legitimate role is as expert measurer, that he needs no knowledge of the law because he has no authority to apply the law to his conclusions, and that application of the law is the sole domain of lawyers and the courts. You can't pull a statement out of context to imply that it applies to a broader principle, Dane. Keep it in context or risk misunderstanding your role as a surveyor.

[dmi]

It is completely beside the point for you to assume I am cherry picking anything for any particular purpose. I am not shilling for a particular point of view here.
I can across the quote in an early version Brown's Evidence and Procedures.
Apparently, Brown thought the quote was useful to illustrate a point he was making as to the duties of a surveyor in court.

No doubt a complete reading of the case, would provide a more complete education on the matter. Certaintly context is of utmost important.

You know as well as I do that there are folks(even surveyors) who think and believe "His duty is neither more or less than to Measure geometrically in accordance with those data, and his science goes no further." I read this to mean PUT THE DEED ON THE GROUND AND DON'T BE CUTE ABOUT IT. Is this an unreasonable take? How much context do I need to draw that inference from the court's statement?

Anyway, I am just curious to know others thoughts on the subject of the role of the surveyor, that's it period.

[E_Page]

OK, sorry I misjudged your motive. But Epoch's reply still covers it well.

[goodgps]

Dane !!!!!
Its OK big guy . . .

To simpl"ize" it, I think Evan is merely pointing out that we as surveyors, cannot just run with a single piece of evidence, or a quote or an opinion without having full knowledge of the context of the writ.

Someone stated a while back (another thread) . . .that Surveyors were no longer Expert measurers. BULL OOny . . . What good is Knowedge of law, discovery of traditional practice and evidence with out properly setting out the findings ???

Cherry or no cherry . . . . Thought without execution is worthless . . and vice versa . . . .

P.S. NO fighting youz guyz . . .I snapped the fusion in my back (using a pick in hard pan) So I cant break you two up . . . LOL ouch !

"Good" but now bent . . . .

[dmi]

Who said anything about one quote or one piece of evidence.
THERE IS PLENTY WRITTEN OVER TIME ON THE SUBJECT MATTER, sheesh this is one quotation from a point in time.... it was good enough for Brown to quote, perhaps it is still useful AS A POINT OF DEPARTURE FOR CONVERSATION.....SHEESH...