City of Visalia seeking Professional Land Surveyor

[David Anaya]

The City of Visalia CA is seeking to fill one full-time contract Professional Land Surveyor. Will be responsible for managing the City’s survey crews, reviewing project plans, coordinating work, and reviewing field data. Recruitment open until filled. Apply immediately at http://www.ci.visalia.ca.us. For more info call (559) 713-4300. EOE

Requires CA registration as a PLS or equivalent and related experience.

http://agency.governmentjobs.com/visali ... xPacket%3E

[land butcher]

Actually City Mgrs and other directors do have contracts. They are City employees but their pay and benefits are under a negotiated contract. Many have early termination buy out clause.

I kinda doubt the survey mgr would get the same deal, but the times are a changing.

[Stephen Johnson]

I would bet it is contract so that it is NOT covered by either civil service or union contracts.

[land butcher]

Open the announcement and read the benefits list. Sounds pretty govt to me.

[PLS_8586]

Two hundred plus city of Costa Mesa Employees were given their pink slips (with 6 month advance notice) on Friday the 17th! One employee ended his life over the Cities thoughtless act to privatize during these economic hard times. Contracting out certainly has it's place but at what cost of civil service are we willing to scarifice especially during natural disasters like:
Japan's earthquake, New Orleans flooding, Laguna Beach Fires and Coastal flooding etc. Each civil servant is sworn to serve during natural disasters and history demonstrated what happened in New Orleans (many civil servants were let go and the federal government was to blame for not solving their problems; the contractors all left town before the storm hit the city). Unfortunately, ignorance and history will painfully repeat themselves!

[PLS_8586]

Two hundred plus city of Costa Mesa Employees were given their pink slips (with 6 month advance notice) on Friday the 17th! One employee ended his life over the cities thoughtless act to privatize during these economic hard times. Contracting out certainly has it's place but at what cost of civil service are we willing to scarifice especially during natural disasters like:
Japan's earthquake, New Orleans flooding, Laguna Beach Fires and Coastal flooding etc. Each civil servant is sworn to serve during natural disasters and history demonstrated what happened in New Orleans (many civil servants were let go and the federal government was to blame for not solving their problems; the contractors all left town before the storm hit the city). Unfortunately, ignorance and history will painfully repeat themselves!

[E_Page]

If someone committed suicide over losing his job, he had other basic emotional problems beyond the City's control. I pity that person and sympathize with his family and friends. But it is ridiculous to blame the City for his decision and his action.

If the City leaders concluded that certain government functions needed to be reduced to a point that full time employees were not required to perform them, then why should local taxpayers pay for City employees full time salaries and benefits to perform part time work. Many of those taxpayers have been unemployed or underemployed for several months, subsisting on far less than they were accustomed to in the past. Keeping employees on and paying them full salaries and benefits when the work no longer exists for them to do becomes a form of very expensive welfare, and it's unfair to ask those who have already experienced what these City employees now face to pony up to cover it.

If some of these functions are now going to be contracted out, some private sector jobs will be created. Dedication among employees is not limited to the public sector. Nor is public sector employment a guarantee of dedication. New Orleans during Katrina saw not only contractors fleeing the city, but also public "servants" running away in droves along with everyone else, regardless of any oath they may have taken to stay and serve. To assert that all the public employees remained to provide continued service lacks even a hint of credibility.

I hate to see anyone who strives to put in an honest work effort for honest pay lose their source of income, but it's happening all over. Government jobs have always been understood to be generally more secure than private sector jobs, but they aren't and should not be guaranteed lifetime appointments.

I hope for, but am not hopeful of an improved economy before those terminations become effective. Either way, I sincerely wish them the best of luck in keeping or replacing their incomes to adequately cover their living expenses.

[land butcher]

First of all, public employees are not forced to work under substandard conditions by profit oriented private business.
These are govt workers, that even before they were unionized they had 99% guaranteed jobs with decent paychecks and little or no performance requirements. They can make errors costing private citizens thousands of dollars without any form of reprimand. They had zero reason to unionize.

The unions, being a big private for profit business, saw a huge cash cow by unionizing public employees. You notice I say public employees and not workers. Workers earn their paychecks, public employees just get paid. They produce no profitable products.

The public employee contracts, approved by politicians bought and paid for by the unions, have taken public employee salaries above and beyond what the private sector can afford to pay. Their platinum retirement plans are so expensive that over 50% of the budgets of CA govt agencies go for salaries and benefits and retirements. That's today, what will happen when it reaches 100%.
The unions refuse to reduce the salary and benefit packages so the only action is what the Gov of Wisconsin did. The alternative, as done by the city of Costa Mesa, CA, is to lay off half of their employees and outsource to private companies who will not be burdened with those sky high benefit packages.

Govt employee pensions are guaranteed. Private are not. My AFL-CIO pension has been reduced due to the reduction of assets due to the drop in investment values.

FK the elected politicians who approved those contracts. Receiving campaign funds from Unions then voting on union contracts is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. Why is it allowed.

[land butcher]

OC Register Sunday Mar 20, 2011 front page

Retired educators stay on payroll.
Orange counties 14,511 retired educators collected $705 million in pensions in 2010. Some 2300 retirees added $21 million to their incomes by returning to public school jobs. Exemptions designed to ensure quick access to skilled administrators and a ready supply of talented teachers helped boost pay $2.1 million past a state earnings limit.

$705million/14511=$48,584 average.
Private retirees on social security get about half of that, less $90/ month for medicare with deductibles.

My privately employed executive neighbor's sister and brother-in-law are retired State employees. Their retirement gives them right at $200k per year. She was hired back to her job as a contract employee at a higher salary and he joined the prison guard system. Their combined State checks total over $350k per year plus fully funded medical.

[Stephen Johnson]

My advice to all Government entities is to refuse to negotiate with Unions. Offer all non-deadwood current employees a good salary and benefits with normal civil service protections against arbitrarily being fired. If the Union says strike, that is grounds for termination of employment and termination of retirement benefits.

The unions have their places. In the government is NOT one of them.

[PLS_8586]

I agree with reform on many of the pension fronts that are NOT contributing to their pension (many Safety, Fire, Police, Upper OCPW Management, CEO's etc). It's been long over due! Many of the Public Works employees from Orange County have been contributing 16% to 24% of their salary to pay for their retirement and medical benefits. For those that had Social Security substantial earnings established before coming into the County system, now have been penalized with the WEP Social Security calculator. This means they lose 70% of their earned S.S. benefits. Many of these public workers have carried on with their public service for FIVE years without any cost of living and continue incurring medical insurance hikes every year like everyone else. I'm a professional land surveyor and have worked in private and public sect or (State, Federal, County and City). As far as the public works employee is concerned, I see the need to continue the balance of public and private service especially in land surveying. Out sourcing labor has it's immediate cost benefits but has long term social economic effects as well. Some of you at the age of 47 to 68 who have dedicated your professional life to the private sector see the prospective of the HAVES verses the HAVE NOTS. Those in the public sector that have contributed their fair share of their retirement contribution (salaries from $28K to $42K to $83K) have done so faithfully! It's long over due for the remain public safety work force mentioned above to start paying their fair share as well! Think about the underfunded retirement liability issue in another light! Would you be able to buy your home today if you had to disclose that your entire mortgage balance ($450K) is supported by your bank account savings with $450K in the balance? Of course not! The funds grow with active investment and investors!

[PLS_8586]

I agree with reform on many of the pension fronts that are NOT contributing to their pension (many Safety, Fire, Police, Upper OCPW Management, CEO's etc). It's been long over due! All of the Public Works employees from Orange County have been contributing 16% to 24% of their salary to pay for their retirement and medical benefits for years. For those that had Social Security substantial earnings established before coming into the County system, now have been penalized with the WEP Social Security calculator. This means they lose 70% of their earned S.S. benefits. Many of these public workers have carried on with their public service for FIVE years without any cost of living and continue incurring medical insurance hikes every year like everyone else. I'm a professional land surveyor and have worked in private and public sector (State, Federal, County and City). As far as the public works employee is concerned, I've seen the need to continue the balance of public and private service especially in land surveying. Out sourcing labor has it's immediate cost benefits but has long term social economic effects as well. Some of you at the age of 47 to 68 who have dedicated your professional life to the private sector see the prospective of the HAVES verses the HAVE NOTS. Those in the public sector that have contributed their fair share of their retirement contribution (salaries from $28K to $42K to $83K) have done so faithfully! It's long over due for the remaining public safety work force and those mentioned above to start paying their fair share as well! Think about the underfunded retirement liability issue in another light! Would you be able to buy your home today if you had to disclose that your entire mortgage balance ($450K) is supported by your bank account savings with $450K in the balance? Of course not! The funds grow with active investment and investors! As far as Unions go, they have their place in American history especially during the Great Depression. Land Butcher, all salary information and benefits paid to employees at the County of Orange are of public record. Next time you visit the front counter to drop off a map ask anyone of the number of employees there that serve the public how much they pay into their retirement every pay check! In recent years county employees didn't have a choice whether to join or not join a Union (active on the first day). Past employees had a choice. The union is not as strong as PERS but it still has a voice. Yes, I would like the taxpayers to have more input regarding upper managements free pensions and to evaluate their city of Bell like salaries! PS. OC landfill workers are not under OC Public Works (check the web site for your facts their under OC Waste and Recycle and have been for ten years or more)! Bruce, the public works employee supports their own retirement plan there is a contribution by the County government (see statement in website). The retirement program is funded similiar to the mortgage on your home from investors, stocks, bonds and public works employees. Our own board of supervisors changed our own MOU to penalize us on our retirement medical perdium ($300 and change) if we retire before 60 years of age rather than 55 (35% penalty if you leave at 55). The main reason many people are working to 65 to 70 is to secure the medical benefits for themselves and family members.

[land butcher]

All of the Public Works employees from Orange County have been contributing 16% to 24% of their salary to pay for their retirement and medical benefits for years.

Really, sorry I would have to see paystubs or other official data that verify that.

I know a ex county landfill worker who retired in his early 40s and collects 50% of his salary and fully paid medical for life, with COL increases. There is no way his contributions and retirement fund investments cover his pension let alone the medical.

The issue is that no one at any govt agency is responsible for the high costs of employee salaries and benefits. The taxpayers, who have zero input, foot the bills. And the politicians are beholding to the unions. Govt does not have to adhere to a profit and loss sheet, that's a major issue.

[bruce hall]

impression that public employee contributes a percentage of his wage into a retirement package. Is there any matching funds contributed by the employer (city, county)?

And another thing, "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporay problem."

I didn't have a whole lot to say and I used two paragraphs.

[PLS_8586]

I agree with reform on many of the pension fronts that are NOT contributing to their pension (many Safety, Fire, Police, Upper OCPW Management, CEO's etc). It's been long over due! All of the Public Works employees from Orange County have been contributing 16% to 24% of their salary to pay for their retirement and medical benefits for years. For those that had Social Security substantial earnings established before coming into the County system, now have been penalized with the WEP Social Security calculator. This means they lose 70% of their earned S.S. benefits. Many of these public workers have carried on with their public service for FIVE years without any cost of living and continue incurring medical insurance hikes every year like everyone else. I'm a professional land surveyor and have worked in private and public sector (State, Federal, County and City). As far as the public works employee is concerned, I've seen the need to continue the balance of public and private service especially in land surveying. Out sourcing labor has it's immediate cost benefits but has long term social economic effects as well. Some of you at the age of 47 to 68 who have dedicated your professional life to the private sector see the prospective of the HAVES verses the HAVE NOTS. Those in the public sector that have contributed their fair share of their retirement contribution (salaries from $28K to $42K to $83K) have done so faithfully! It's long over due for the remaining public safety work force and those mentioned above to start paying their fair share as well! Think about the underfunded retirement liability issue in another light! Would you be able to buy your home today if you had to disclose that your entire mortgage balance ($450K) is supported by your bank account savings with $450K in the balance? Of course not! The funds grow with active investment and investors! As far as Unions go, they have their place in American history especially during the Great Depression. Land Butcher, all salary information and benefits paid to employees at the County of Orange are of public record. Next time you visit the front counter to drop off a map ask anyone of the number of employees there that serve the public how much they pay into their retirement every pay check! In recent years county employees didn't have a choice whether to join or not join a Union (active on the first day). Past employees had a choice. The union is not as strong as PERS but it still has a voice. Yes, I would like the taxpayers to have more input regarding upper managements free pensions and to evaluate their city of Bell like salaries! PS. OC landfill workers are not under OC Public Works (check the web site for your facts their under OC Waste and Recycle and have been for ten years or more)! Bruce, the public works employee supports their own retirement plan there is a contribution by the County government (see statement in website). The retirement program is funded similiar to the mortgage on your home from investors, stocks, bonds and public works employees. Our own board of supervisors changed our own MOU to penalize us on our retirement medical perdium ($300 and change) if we retire before 60 years of age rather than 55 (35% penalty if you leave at 55). The main reason many people are working to 65 to 70 is to secure the medical benefits for themselves and family members.

[bruce hall]

The current post # 13 was preceding post #10(LB's (9:15 Post) when I submitted post #12 this afternoon.

How does he dooooo thaaaat?

[land butcher]

The ex County landfill worker retired close to 10 years ago now. I saw his monthly check stub and ~6 years ago it was ~ $2400. Do the math, there is no way his contributions and whatever retirement system investments return that much money, esp since the economic meltdown of 2008. Retiring at age 42 he could very well be collecting for 40 years. Then add in the fully paid medical which 3 years ago Kaiser was costing me $500/month with co pays and deductibles.

The govt employees and their unions say they pay for their retirement, but they never put out the actual numbers. A good surveyor should be able to do the math on his own retirement and realize that there are thousands of dollars unaccounted for.

The council members and managers of Bell should be lined up and shot. Or better yet everything they own returned to the residents of the city so they can spend their now unfunded retirement pushing shopping carts and living under the freeway.

Just like that crook Corona, free legal defense because he hid all his assets and his "only" income is a paltry $250k/yr retirement.

[Stephen Johnson]

Bruce,

That is an eerily interesting question.

[PLS_8586]

The ex County landfill worker retired close to 10 years ago now. I saw his monthly check stub and ~6 years ago it was ~ $2400. Do the math, there is no way his contributions and whatever retirement system investments return that much money, esp since the economic meltdown of 2008. Retiring at age 42 he could very well be collecting for 40 years. Then add in the fully paid medical which 3 years ago Kaiser was costing me $500/month with co pays and deductibles.

The govt employees and their unions say they pay for their retirement, but they never put out the actual numbers. A good surveyor should be able to do the math on his own retirement and realize that there are thousands of dollars unaccounted for.

The council members and managers of Bell should be lined up and shot. Or better yet everything they own returned to the residents of the city so they can spend their now unfunded retirement pushing shopping carts and living under the freeway.

Just like that crook Corona, free legal defense because he hid all his assets and his "only" income is a paltry $250k/yr retirement.

Yes, I beleive your friend at the land fill was apart of the Tier 1 employees who never paid into their retirement. The agencies were split apart probably at the time your friend retired. The survey department lost the survey crew to the Waste Management Agency and survey stopped surveying the landfills.

[E_Page]

Bruce,

Take a look at your past posts. You can edit them at any time. I was confused as well until I scrolled down and saw the 16% to 24% thing in Mr. Foster's later post.


Mr. Foster, If your going to insist on throwing around such factoids, you really are going to lose credibility really fast.

[PLS_8586]

Facts are facts in the real world Mr. Page! Live in it or live out of it! It's your choice! My creditability is in fine shape! Thank you very much :-)

[JKnox]

Evan and Tom,
You two know who I am, and I hope you both will believe what I'm saying here. My dealings with each of you should establish at least a thimble-full of credibility. I will not lie, exaggerate, or BS you. I recently went to work for the County of Orange. My salary (near top of the range) as a licensed party chief is $35.76 per hour. Does that sound outrageous to either of you? Last I checked, Local 12 has licensed party chiefs near $50 per hour. Tom - when I worked for you, did I ever earn less than you paid me - ever? I do NOT just take up space - I earn my paycheck every day. Some govt workers are weak, yes we can all agree to that, but don't jam us all into the same box and judge us as lazy, whiny, incompetent welfare cases. As for my retirement package, I contribute 18.2% of my gross pay, and that stings. If I stay here 10 years and retire at age 60, assuming I top out in the next few years, I would contribute a total of roughly $140,000 into the system. I used my calculator, Tom. At 60, I will be eligible to withdraw $20,200 per year. For this, I also used my calculator. So, if I were to have invested my 18.2% in a safe investment over those 10 years, earning say 3% per anum, I would have about $160,000 invested in the system. So, I figure that if I die before age 70, give or take, the pension system has made money on me. If I live beyond 70, I win! For the record, retired County employees get a $300 per month health allowance, which is NOT guaranteed. Also, what Ian said about losing a large percentage of my social security because I may some day draw a County pension is true. So, do I really win? When you read about govt workers earning pensions of $100K or $200K, they must have some job I've never heard of, and work for some employer I've never heard of. Tom - I don't understand how your friend retired at age 42. No retirement system I have ever heard of will/would permit that. But, if you all think that public pensions and public jobs are so great, I'll be watching for all of your names on the next party chief recruitment we have, coming up in the next few months. ALL ABOARD THE GRAVY TRAIN!!!!

[JKnox]

FK the elected politicians who approved those contracts. Receiving campaign funds from Unions then voting on union contracts is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST. Why is it allowed.

That's called lobbying, and I dislike it as much as you do. When corporations quit lobbying for the right to pollute the air I breathe, I'll ask my union to stop lobbying for my right to earn a fair wage.

[bruce hall]

missed the boat in my readings regarding "rights". I remember reading somewhere that "a worker is due his wage" or something along those lines. I don't remember if the word "fair" was in that passage or not. The New Testimate is probably where it is.

I know that the Constitution of the USA has nothing in it regarding the right to a fair wage or clean air.

Rights might be left, but are they ever wrong?

[land butcher]

That's called lobbying, and I dislike it as much as you do. When corporations quit lobbying for the right to pollute the air I breathe, I'll ask my union to stop lobbying for my right to earn a fair wage.

Lobbying is a loose word for it. The issue is that public union contacts are approved by elected councilmen/supervisors that are mostly afraid to go against the unions. In private union contracts there are actual negotiations involved, the union is dealing with the business owner and he his not beholding to the union to keep his job.

No, John you earned your money. And some do, but in my years of public employment and dealing with public employees I lean towards people like you being in the minority. And when public work slows down does anyone get laid off. The last 3 years drop in plan submitttal and building permits, if the newspapers are even nearly correct, 70% of those depts employees should be unemployed - are they, any? Private work does not have extended "busy" work.

No, you won't see my name on the list, been there done that. And I'm not diverse enough.

If John says he contributes 18% I believe him, but something is wrong with the system because in the last 10-15 years it has become unfundable according to lots of people more knowledgeable about the subject than me.
And, unlike private pensions like AFL-CIO, public pensions are 100% guaranteed.

"Tom - I don't understand how your friend retired at age 42. No retirement system I have ever heard of will/would permit that. "
John, all I know is his age and saw the check stub. He worked for me and had no reason to lie. 19-42 is 23 years.


"Mr. Foster, If your going to insist on throwing around such factoids,..."
Show me where I am wrong.