I recall that this subject was brought brought up a few months back, but I'm going to ask anyway since I just got notified to take Caltrans exam.
I'm looking for any info or insight regarding Caltrans Transportation Surveyor Exam. What is on it? Is it basic stuff? calcs, curves, co-ords, traverse and inverse, error theory, etc? Or is it more involved, such as GPS, State Plane, CAD, and terrain modeling?
What kind of study material and books are allowed? What kind of calculator?
As I recall only Texas Instruments (unknown model) is allowed?
What's up with only TI calculators and not HP? I've never met a surveyor yet that liked and used a TI instead of HP. Myself included. (35-25-41-48-50). Does anyone prefer and use TI over HP? No offense intended if you do.
Any info or ideas about this test would be wonderful.
I've been searching for it on the Caltrans website, but no luck far.
Thanks
TIB
Caltrans exams & HP vs TI
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BeachBum
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- Contact:
When I took the exam many moons ago, we were given a TI to use, I didn't waste my time trying to relearn the format, so any calcs I did were all done by hand.
I beleive the exam is only an hour long, so there shouldn't be anything to crazy to breakdown, it was all basic survey knowledge, some PLSS stuff and basic calcs that we should all be able to do.
I beleive the exam is only an hour long, so there shouldn't be anything to crazy to breakdown, it was all basic survey knowledge, some PLSS stuff and basic calcs that we should all be able to do.
Christopher Bateman
PLS 8091
PLS 8091
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land butcher
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CalTrans and NCEES should both write exams where calculators are not required. Would make it more equitable for those not familiar with TIs or even other models of HP.
How many on here us basically "dumb" calculators at work, probably not many, so we would have to familiarize ourselves with the "approved" model which adversely affects us during the test both physically and mentally.
How many on here us basically "dumb" calculators at work, probably not many, so we would have to familiarize ourselves with the "approved" model which adversely affects us during the test both physically and mentally.
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TIB
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:56 pm
LB is right
I agree with Land Butcher. Caltrans says it will provide an HP33s or TI-25x for the exam. So I just went out and bought a new HP33s and added some simple programs to it in order to be semi-familiar with the new (to me) calculator.
Then I noticed that the wording said an HP-33s OR a TI-25x will be PROVIDED.
So apparently you can't bring in your own HP-33s. So much for the programs.
And naturally if I go in expecting an HP, they will certainly hand me a TI and say "good luck". I've never used a TI (for surveying) in my life. What surveyor has? So now I guess I should probably go buy a TI if I want to have a clue on how to use one. I realize that it's probably just the basics, but it would be nice to know some basic stuff like angle HMS conversions, polar-rectangular, trig functions, etc. in advance instead of having to learn "on the fly" during the exam.
Naturally. of course if I buy and learn the TI calculator they will provide an HP and I will be stuck with a silly Texas Instruments calculator that I bought but don't want.
This is stupid!
Then I noticed that the wording said an HP-33s OR a TI-25x will be PROVIDED.
So apparently you can't bring in your own HP-33s. So much for the programs.
And naturally if I go in expecting an HP, they will certainly hand me a TI and say "good luck". I've never used a TI (for surveying) in my life. What surveyor has? So now I guess I should probably go buy a TI if I want to have a clue on how to use one. I realize that it's probably just the basics, but it would be nice to know some basic stuff like angle HMS conversions, polar-rectangular, trig functions, etc. in advance instead of having to learn "on the fly" during the exam.
Naturally. of course if I buy and learn the TI calculator they will provide an HP and I will be stuck with a silly Texas Instruments calculator that I bought but don't want.
This is stupid!
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rpost
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- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:40 pm
- Location: San Diego, CA
TIB
Relax man! I know your ability. You could probably pass with a slide rule (like they used way back when, around the time you got your license). By the way, if you buy a TI and I hear about it.............
Ryan Post, LS
ATC Design Group
Escondido, CA
ATC Design Group
Escondido, CA
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TIB
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:56 pm
Texas Instruments
Thanks Ryan.
After pressuring Caltrans for some hard answers, I found out that HP's are not allowed. No memory or programs. They will provide a TI calculator only. There are no other options. You may not bring in your own calculator (unless it's the same model TI).
So, check this out, I, surveyor, actually went out and purchased a Texas Instruments calculator to use for survey calcs. On purpose even!
Ohh the shame, the pain, the embarrassment!
Please don't tell anyone.....
After pressuring Caltrans for some hard answers, I found out that HP's are not allowed. No memory or programs. They will provide a TI calculator only. There are no other options. You may not bring in your own calculator (unless it's the same model TI).
So, check this out, I, surveyor, actually went out and purchased a Texas Instruments calculator to use for survey calcs. On purpose even!
Ohh the shame, the pain, the embarrassment!
Please don't tell anyone.....
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Rob_LS
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:56 pm
Read the exam bulletin and have whoever you are dealing with read it also: http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/jobs/ExamBulle ... 111507.pdf
"NOTE: A calculator (Texas Instruments, Model TI – 25X or Hewlett Packard, Model 33s) will be provided for candidate use during the examination. If you wish to bring your own calculator, the following models may be used:
Hewlett Packard – HP 9s; Casio – 115 MS and 115 MS Plus; Texas Instruments – TI 30X IIS, TI 30X IIB and TI 36X. No other calculating devices (slide rules, calculators, etc.) will be allowed into the examination room."
You may want to contact the Caltrans Office of Examination Services in Sacramento at (916)227-2139 if you prefer an HP33s, and are not being offered that option wherever you are taking the exam.
"NOTE: A calculator (Texas Instruments, Model TI – 25X or Hewlett Packard, Model 33s) will be provided for candidate use during the examination. If you wish to bring your own calculator, the following models may be used:
Hewlett Packard – HP 9s; Casio – 115 MS and 115 MS Plus; Texas Instruments – TI 30X IIS, TI 30X IIB and TI 36X. No other calculating devices (slide rules, calculators, etc.) will be allowed into the examination room."
You may want to contact the Caltrans Office of Examination Services in Sacramento at (916)227-2139 if you prefer an HP33s, and are not being offered that option wherever you are taking the exam.
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Stephen Johnson
- Posts: 363
- Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:48 am
I learned how to do COGO on a TI 50 32 years ago. I actually prefer algebraic logic over rpn. Given the choice of a suitably powerful and flexible TI, I would pick it over an HP every time.TIB wrote:Thanks Ryan.
After pressuring Caltrans for some hard answers, I found out that HP's are not allowed. No memory or programs. They will provide a TI calculator only. There are no other options. You may not bring in your own calculator (unless it's the same model TI).
So, check this out, I, surveyor, actually went out and purchased a Texas Instruments calculator to use for survey calcs. On purpose even!
Ohh the shame, the pain, the embarrassment!
Please don't tell anyone.....
Stephen Johnson, PLS 6303
Politicians should serve two terms. One in office and one in prison.
Stop Repeat Offenders!!! Quit ReElecting Them!!!
Politicians should serve two terms. One in office and one in prison.
Stop Repeat Offenders!!! Quit ReElecting Them!!!
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RasterMaster
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- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:25 pm
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Stephen Johnson
- Posts: 363
- Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:48 am
Totally unrelated to my post. And spelling isn't correct either.RasterMaster wrote:Completly inaccurate Stephen. For all reading this thread, take Rob_LS's advice.
Stephen Johnson, PLS 6303
Politicians should serve two terms. One in office and one in prison.
Stop Repeat Offenders!!! Quit ReElecting Them!!!
Politicians should serve two terms. One in office and one in prison.
Stop Repeat Offenders!!! Quit ReElecting Them!!!
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Scott Tikalsky
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:36 pm
- Location: Redding, Ca.
I took both exams last June. My advice is relax. If you have made it to the point that Caltrans has given you the opportunity to take the exam, your resume and application probably indicates you can pass the exam with an abacus... it really is all you need.
Good luck with it!
Good luck with it!
Scott Tikalsky, L.S.
Redding, Ca.
530.440.5046
Redding, Ca.
530.440.5046
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land butcher
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:26 pm
- Location: calif
The real issue is familiarity with the calculator you are being forced to use on the exam.
Because my first calculator was a HP45 I hate anything with a = sign.
My son on the other hand loves Casio. His favorite, a Casio fx300sa, was stolen when someone broke into his house. He recently took a County of Orange test and used a casio FX115w I had here for some unknown reason, turns out this POS recalls stored data but unless you make the recalled data a ans it uses previous ans data. Of course he found this out after the fact when doing something else with it. Whoever graded his test probably thought this applicant with CE degree was a real dummy. BTW when recalling the stored data it does not show the actual numbers - dumb.
So not being totally familiar with any calculator can ruin your test results.
Again I say, make tests that do not require a calculator.
And outlawing a slide rule - ROTFLMAO
Because my first calculator was a HP45 I hate anything with a = sign.
My son on the other hand loves Casio. His favorite, a Casio fx300sa, was stolen when someone broke into his house. He recently took a County of Orange test and used a casio FX115w I had here for some unknown reason, turns out this POS recalls stored data but unless you make the recalled data a ans it uses previous ans data. Of course he found this out after the fact when doing something else with it. Whoever graded his test probably thought this applicant with CE degree was a real dummy. BTW when recalling the stored data it does not show the actual numbers - dumb.
So not being totally familiar with any calculator can ruin your test results.
Again I say, make tests that do not require a calculator.
And outlawing a slide rule - ROTFLMAO
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TIB
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:56 pm
It's their choice
Caltrans will provide an HP or TI. Their choice is an easy one. They can buy a bunch of HP calculators @ more than $50 each or a bunch of useless TI calculators @ about $15ea. Guess which one you'll be issued for the test.
Since they don't allow other reasonable options, they ability to use that particular calculator becomes a part of the test. Granted it's not very difficult, as within 30 minutes I was able to make the silly thing do most of the basic trig and other functions, but if your minutes of learning time is during the test, the calculator provided could easily be the difference between pass and fail.
LB: I would assume candidates should be able to calc using basic trig (curve, circle, triangle, etc), and that would be hard to test someone without allowing calculators for trig & math.
But.. no slide rules allowed! I would think that anyone choosing a slide rule instead of a calculator should get bonus points or extra time. They are slow and hard to use. I'll bet there are very few people under age 55 that can use a slide rule. I certainly can't nor do I want to learn.
Since they don't allow other reasonable options, they ability to use that particular calculator becomes a part of the test. Granted it's not very difficult, as within 30 minutes I was able to make the silly thing do most of the basic trig and other functions, but if your minutes of learning time is during the test, the calculator provided could easily be the difference between pass and fail.
LB: I would assume candidates should be able to calc using basic trig (curve, circle, triangle, etc), and that would be hard to test someone without allowing calculators for trig & math.
But.. no slide rules allowed! I would think that anyone choosing a slide rule instead of a calculator should get bonus points or extra time. They are slow and hard to use. I'll bet there are very few people under age 55 that can use a slide rule. I certainly can't nor do I want to learn.
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land butcher
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:26 pm
- Location: calif
"I would assume candidates should be able to calc using basic trig (curve, circle, triangle, etc), and that would be hard to test someone without allowing calculators for trig & math. "
Years ago a candidate took the CA LS exam, brought 2 HPs and 2 extra battery packs. Before he finished all were dead. He wrote this on his exam and finished by showing how he would do the problems but could not get the actual answer. He passed.
All of the items, curve, circle, triangle, etc could be done by having questions asking what formula you would use to do xxxxx. I took many tests before the personal calculator was invented, inc trig classes. IT CAN BE DONE. The test writers are just lazy.
Years ago a candidate took the CA LS exam, brought 2 HPs and 2 extra battery packs. Before he finished all were dead. He wrote this on his exam and finished by showing how he would do the problems but could not get the actual answer. He passed.
All of the items, curve, circle, triangle, etc could be done by having questions asking what formula you would use to do xxxxx. I took many tests before the personal calculator was invented, inc trig classes. IT CAN BE DONE. The test writers are just lazy.