Concrete Pavers & Monument Durability

[Jim Frame]

In another thread (http://www.californiasurveyors.org/clsa ... php?t=4153) the subject of monuments that fall in areas covered by concrete paving bricks was discussed. I'm dealing now with two city block corners at which monuments were destroyed by a street improvement project. The project surveyor (a sub to the contractor) remonumented the corners by epoxying a brass tag on the surface of the paver. He also set a pair of untagged cross-in-curb RPs at each corner, and filed Corner Records showing all of the above.

A couple of photos of one of the corner monuments can be found here:

http://members.dcn.org/jhframe/p_00001.jpg
http://members.dcn.org/jhframe/p_00002.jpg

To my way of thinking, this doesn't constitute a durable monument as envisioned by §8771, and the untagged RPs don't comply with §8772. I've raised the matter with the project owner (a city), but I don't believe they will pursue it with the contractor due to the limited availability of staff time.

I'm inclined to bring the matter to the area PPC. Any comments (particularly by PPC members) for or against would be appreciated.

Thanks!

.

[hellsangle]

You should be proud of a job well done! Budget be damned . . . pride in workmanship is more important than profits (to an extent! ha! wink. wink. nod. nod.)

Best,

Phil - Sonoma

[pls7809]

Jim,

I agree with going directly to the surveyor, or local PPC.

[Peter Ehlert]

unfortunately it is not a new thing
http://www.sdi-baja.com/survey/monuments.htm

My take on the epoxy issue.
There are many kinds of Epoxy. Some kinds are greatly affected by the sun and turn brittle within just a few months/years... not even close to Durable.
The kinds that is used by CalTrans and other public agencies for pavement reflectors and bots dots are very durable, you can't even chip it off and will survive in the sun for many years.
A brass tag or other thin object is difficult to glue down without smearing some on the top and obscuring the markings.

If you chip out a small divot and then glue it in with the top flush with the surface I believe you can have very secure and satisfactory results.

If the tag is set on top it is rather easy to scrape it off with a shovel or other powered cleaning equipment... not durable.

[goodgps]

Was the monument usable and in the correct position (relatively) ?

P.S.

The last job I did in "pavers", we set monument wells and used cement coloring to match the paver color.
They came out beautiful !!

On the other hand, i did a job in the early '90s where it was requested by the client (and approved by Public Agency) to epoxy tags in decorative concrete. The owner didnt want us drilling or cracking his nice finish work.

So there you have it ! Are we socialist/communist ? or are there a few disgretionary rights in this country ?

BTW . . . the epoxied tags still are in place.

Just saying . . . . .

[PLS7393]

I think it is a descresionary issue. how durable is the paver? How durable is an iron pipe? They both could be removed with a little effort if attempted, one easier than another, possibly. While at the Fresno Conference last weekend, anyone who walked down the street would have seen a number of 3/4" brass tags epoxied in concrete pavers at the true property corners.

A couple of us discussed this issue and one said the actual corner doesn't need to be set, rather offset the corner and set your tag in the top of the concrete curb, online. I don't have a problem setting the tag at the actual corner if that is what one decides. The surveyor of record obviously went back and set the corner after the project was nearly completed. I commend him for setting his tags, as I have seen too many surveyors get paid to set the corners for a project, and never make that additional trip to the field and actually set the corners.

I'm more interested to see what the record map says he set? Does the map state "SET IRON PIPE", or truely what was found in the field "SET 3/4" BRASS TAG PLS XXXX, EPOXIED ON CONCRETE PAVERS". Now you have the issue of recording a Certificate of Correction to correct character of the monuments set, as shown on the record map.