Copyright webinar

[MFORD]

Last Friday’s CLSA webinar on Copyrights and how it affects the surveying profession was enlightening and a bit perplexing. The presenter didn’t address, to any degree, how the Public Records Act fits into the copyright equation. Original maps filed in the public record don’t lose copyright protection except under the “fair useâ€￾ exemption. Under copyright law only original documents enjoy copyright protection. Who owns the copyright to a filed map? Do we surveyors lose copyrights to filed maps when we are required to turn over the wet stamped, signed original to the county recorder to be placed in the public record?


What constitutes “fair useâ€￾? Getting a copy of a flied map from the recorder’s office is a fair use. Is distributing copies of that copy to clients and associates a fair use? Can a commercial venture buy copies of filed maps from the county and offer copies of those copies for sale without the permission of the authors or the county? According to the presenter making copies of copies doesn’t fall under the fair use exemption. The rationale is that providing copies of copies would deprive the author the ability to derive income from the work product (maps). How often do title companies, and more recently title consultants, provide copies of filed maps with their title reports and charge the clients a fee for the service? Is that a fair use?


These are all moot questions unless and until a surveyor with deep pockets (an oxymoron) decides to file a lawsuit. However, the webinar did bring up interesting points to ponder.

[Ian Wilson]

Michael:

For the most part, a survey map, such as a Record of Survey, presents facts, not opinions. As you will remember from the webinar, facts are not copyrightable.

A far as subdivisions are concerned, there MAY BE a case for claiming that the design of the parcels is intellectual property and, therefore, copyrightable.

As far as "fair use", would you expect that the agency would issue copies of your map once you file it? Would you expect to be given a copy of a record map when you pay for one at the agency? Would a REASONABLE MAN consir these to be normal practices?

This will be a great webinar to have access to for the purpose of review. Kudos to the Central Office For arranging this one!

[MFORD]

Ian,


I absolutely agree the webinar was time well spent. My questions were directed towards the Public Records Act and the impact if any on the ownership of the work product once filed in the public records. As you pointed out the maps we produce don’t enjoy copyright protection, or at best a limited copyright. The facts we compile aren’t covered but the presentation and the map style may be.


The presenter of the webinar was from Maine and didn’t adequately explain how California state law (PRA) may affect the ownership of the copyright, if any. Copyright goes with an original work, in our case the original map. When our original, wet stamped maps reside in the recorder’s office, is the public now the owner of the work product? The copies we retain for our files aren’t subject to protection, nor are our field notes or any of the other working files we produce while compiling the factual data leading to the final work product, the map.


This is more than a rhetorical question as it affects the value of our records we pass along to our predecessors.

[Ian Wilson]

Copyright does NOT go with the product.

Do you remember Knud's example of the Stephen King novel? Just because you paid $35 for a copy does not give you the right to reproduce it and sell it. That is NOT a normal use.

Th survey map, on the other hand, IS submitted to an agency with the full expectation that the agency will reproduce and share those copies with anyone who request (or pays for) one.

[TTaylor]

Mr. Ford,

I am in no way an expert on copyright law but will offer a few thoughts on the subject for you to consider.

Firstly, I think that the webinar series is a great benefit to the Land Surveying community in California and is administered very well. However, I am always leery when someone from Alabama, Maryland, Maine, or anywhere else presents at a conference, seminar, workshop, webinar, etc. as an authority on a subject that has specific nuances in California law. Particularly those that have not been fully adjudicated. In those instances I have seen attendees leave the talk with more questions than answers and more confused after the talk than before. What I do in those situations is go in with the attitude that I want to learn as much as possible on the subject, sieve the information proffered for the facts that are new to me, and listen for any references so that I can look them up and study on my own.

Secondly, having been a public employee for decades I had a lot of contact with the Public Records Act (a section of the Government Code) and always felt that it was misnamed. The PRA deals with transparency of Government entities and how they conduct their business. The first section of the act says as much:

6250. In enacting this chapter, the Legislature, mindful of the
right of individuals to privacy, finds and declares that access to
information concerning the conduct of the people's business is a
fundamental and necessary right of every person in this state.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... =6250-6270


The rest of the PRA deals with other issues including exemptions and the cost of reproduction.

The reason I feel it is misnamed is that most people consider records recorded by the County Recorder to be “public recordsâ€￾. I.e. records available to the public. The PRA deals with writings (all forms) by government entities including e-mails, memos, etc. If the Act had been called something else like “Public Writings Actâ€￾ and then defined writings appropriately the confusion would not exist.

Thirdly, the questions of copyright related to the products we produce may be addressed elsewhere in CA law but I am not an expert on this subject. You may want to get an unbiased authoritative legal opinion. Be careful, though, on whom you ask for that opinion. If you ask 10 lawyers their opinion you will get 10 different opinions. In that case you are better off telling them the opinion you want and let them give it back to you.  Also, make sure that the question(s) you put forward to the appropriate lawyer(s) is narrow and concise. The best source to ask would be the AG.

© Thomas Taylor

[LS_8750]

It would be nice to get a kickback every time CourthouseDirect.com sells the download to a map, or other official document created by one of us.

Remember Napster and Lars Ulrich, the drummer from Metallica? He won. We won't.

[MFORD]

Ian,
Your right, transfer of a work product does not, by itself, remove the copyright. After a little research I found this tidbit of information in the webinar handout ;
[font=&quot]What if I give the client all the original survey documents so I have no possession or ownership of the documents. Does the client have the copyright in the documents? [/font][font=&quot]Transfer, possession, or ownership of the document by other than the author does not remove the copyright from the author of the work or convey any rights in the copyright from the author to others.[/font]

Further reading revealed:
[font=&quot]How do I transfer my copyright? [/font][font=&quot]Transfers of a copyright must be done in writing and signed by the author or owner of the copyright. In some cases, transfers can occur by will or intestacy. A copyright is personal property and maybe governed by operation of state law dealing with personal property.[/font]

Thank you for the nudge. I’ve come across this same information in other research on copyrights.

Those of us that have purchased the records of past surveyors most likely don’t own the copyrights to the work products. I for one didn’t get a transfer of copyright in writing for the records I own.

© Mike Ford

[TTaylor]

I'm sorry I wasted my time.

[dmi]

"I am sorry i wasted my time...."

[LS_8750]

I like baseball cards, those made up to 1985. They meant something, there were only so many produced, the producers kept on trucking not knowing what the future held for their little niche, there was an innocence in their production that was purely hobbyist in nature.

Then the corporations took over and mass produced later baseball card sets and ruined a good thing.

I like surveyor's maps. There is something pure in the authenticity of their production. I enjoy watching how survey maps evolve over time, how retracement surveys document the beauty of the original surveys, I like to observe how an ancient line might reveal itself in present day terms as a row of ginormous trees, or some other long held legendary line of demarcation.

Survey maps will never be held in the same regard as baseball cards. Nobody cares. Nobody will care when the Recorder's office burns down.

A monument by common report will hold over the original ancient monument six feet away buried 5 feet below ground, when the common report monument has been held as the basis for subdivisions, etc.

Why worry so much?