what does "GR" mean?

[bruce hall]

See attached tract map. On the east side of Pacific Ave there exists the half widths of the street.

One value is "30' Rec" and the other is 32.73 GR.

In another place it is 30' rec and below it is 32.57 GR.

The only thing I can think of for GR is Ground. Is there another term that GR would be an abbreviation for? (Now we are talking survey here, no other subjects.)

And yes the blocks to the east of Pacific are about 2.5 to 2.8 feet longer than the original record shown on tract 1050.

Any insight would be appreciated.

[dewardkb]

I agree GR means ground distance.

[LS 4722]

Try that

[Steve Martin]

Not a lot of Surveyors were using the State Plane coordinate system in 1948 and there is no other indication on the map that it is tied to the State Plane coordinate system.

I am not a fan of using abbreviations, especially without a legend.

Is there anything outside of the map, such as reference maps or unrecorded surveys that give any hint of what GR is? The initials of another Surveyor maybe?

[LS 4722]

The 32.47 value is explained on the map. There is a 2.47' jog between the two found bolts at Westminster and Pacific.

[mpallamary]

Respectfully, it is not ground distance, particularly given the fact that it is such a short distance. The 2.47 foot dimension bears a correlation as noted. There is only one period, i.e. GR. If it was two words, there would be two periods, G. R. I would recommend pulling the adjacent map(s) to see if it shows up again. I would also pull more of Hoy's maps to see if he uses it elsewhere. If that doesn't work, I would examine other period subdivision maps, say a year before and a year after. In many instances, the then prevailing county surveyor will require the inclusion of some reference that although known at the time, is now irrelevant. This happens a lot. Short of that (and this works) I would offer a $250 prize to whoever can figure it out. Good luck!

[Ian Wilson]

I'm on my iPad, so I can't get at 34 MM 6. Is there anything on that map that indicates what's going on?

It looks as thought 34 MM 6 hold the easterly R/W of the block to the south, even though there is a jog in the centerline on the map in question. Clearly, the GR has something to do with the differences between the 30' half width and the extended R/W.

[LS 4722]

I do not think you will find GR on a lot of maps. Whatever GR may mean, it is just an excess value created by holding the found monument at Pacific and Nineteenth and the difference in bearings between the east line of the grant deed for Tract No. 1274 and the sideline of Pacific Street shown on Tract No. 1050.

Classic case of come from the west for one deed (Tr. no. 1274) and a mismatch of the one that came from the east (Tr. no. 1050).

At least Mr Hoy did not create a gap strip.

Edit: Tract No. 1050 has an error. It shows 30' between the east line of Pacific to the west line of that tracts boundary (Grant Deed), but there is a 1' 20" skew between the two lines which makes 0.26' in 643 feet. Add that to the 2.47' jog and you have 2.73'.

[Dave Karoly, PLS]

I'm using an iPad too.

Press on Bruce's link after a second or two a context menu pops up like a right-click, choose how you want to open the PDF.

Works for me, anyway.

[bruce hall]

some county notes circa 1942 to 1957. They found pipes on the east sideline of Pacific that are 32.6 feet east of the centerline.

also find a parcel map circa 1981 to the east of pacific which addresses the overage. also by adding the lot distances from the section line 660+- feet east of pacific using tract 1050 there is a difference of about 2.5 feet using the lot dimensions verses the distances shown along the centerlines.

There is 2.5 plus feet to deal with. The centerline of Pacific southerly from Westminster ave was placed 660 feet west of the centerline of Beach Blvd (the section line) per a tract map to the south. The centerline of Pacific northerly is based on sectional breakdown, per tract 1050.

Anyway, this discrepancy (for lack of a better word) has been known for quite some time. Just not by everyone. Just was trying to get a feeeelllll for "GR" and what it could mean.

I have acquired all the maps thru the county website. Geo. Bates, LS 485, I have followed on probably 5 or 6 surveys in my carrier with everything being hunky dory. I guess there is a first time for everything. As far as HOY is concerned, he did a lot of surveying in the OC and near as I can remember his work was fine.

Thank you,

[Ian Wilson]

Dave- no problems with the link. It is using the iPad to access LA Counties map reference site gat is the problem. I was trying to access the map to the east of Bruce's link.

[mpallamary]

In San Diego it would presumably mean grade.

http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/dpw/surveyor/abbreviate.html

[bruce hall]

here is the map that is east of pacific. the original subdivision.

[dewardkb]

Mr. Hall there appears to be an error on the map you just posted that would explain the other map notation. Clearly GR. stands for the actual distance measured. If you look at the second map the bearings do not agree on the center of the street and along the edge of the block yet it shows a measurement of 30 feet between them. Another thing is the dimension shown on the intersecting street is labeled with 2 different dimensions with a difference very close to the difference on the original map.

I think there is little doubt the GR. Would have been the measured distance or "ground" distance as opposed to record distance at this point.

[Dave Karoly, PLS]

I see what you mean.

The map thing works. I've always done it that way on the iPad.

The drop down list doesn't work though, go to the interactive map and put the tract no. In the search box.

Except that Bruce's thing is in Orange County. ;-). (I didn't notice that until I opened LA Tract 1050 and it looked wrong).

[LS 4722]

...
I think there is little doubt the GR. Would have been the measured distance or "ground" distance as opposed to record distance at this point.

I don't think so. The norm would have been to place 'Meas.' on the two GR values. Those are calculated/record values. If Hoy actually measured the two values, he would have had to be measuring to a physical item, i.e., an iron pipe.

I think the meaning of GR is lost. At the time it was placed, it was most likely a notation that Hoy and the County Surveyor came up with.

[Ian Wilson]

I think there is little doubt the GR. Would have been the measured distance or "ground" distance as opposed to record distance at this point.

That would imply a vertical difference of about 13 feet. That's simply not going to happen in that part of the world...

[Dave Karoly, PLS]

What's needed is a time machine...

So we can go back and ask Hoy what in the heck "GR." means.

While we are at it can we stop by 1963 and ask Knute Nelson, LS2822, why he pulled out two lumber company monuments? I have found no reason in the correspondence files.

Maybe the County Surveyor has old correspondence files that explain it? We have correspondence back into the 1930s in some cases. They had State Forest Rangers (modern equivalent is Battalion Chief) doing property acquisition. There are letters from HQ explaining what is needed, go to the local Title Company, etc. no wonder things are messed up sometimes.

I have a feeling the draftsman may have misinterpreted Hoy's handwriting and no one noticed. That is assuming Hoy didn't draft the map himself (common at that time).

[mpallamary]

I own the records of an old surveyor, long deceased, named Tom Shuttleworth - LS 2717. He seemed to work up a legend for nearly every map he prepared. My favorite one is set "PKHFO." The answer is below:
















P-K Head flew off.

[land butcher]

I own the records of an old surveyor, long deceased, named Tom Shuttleworth - LS 2717. He seemed to work up a legend for nearly every map he prepared. My favorite one is set "PKHFO." The answer is below:
















P-K Head flew off.

Today the CS would make you pull it out and reset.

[bruce hall]

all for your help and comments.

[Dave Karoly, PLS]

I think GR. should be C.R. and it stands for Calculated from Record.

[RAM]

how about Good Ruck?

[pls7809]

Graded?

[David Kendall]

Gross