License Required?

mpallamary · Post by **mpallamary** » Sat May 31, 2014 9:49 am

Hi Clark,

CLSA should be the answer but they are not. I have been involved in the organization for nearly 35 years and I have served on a lot of committees. I spent more time working on surveyor issues than I care to remember. For the last 20 years or more I have been actively advocating CLSA doing more things and being more proactive. I have offered to work on committees as have others but there simply is no interest. I have offered to promote these ideas through various CLSA publications and through seminars, but there is no interest. I have tried very hard to promote the association and to adopt a formal public relations outreach campaign, but there is no interest. I have made a lot of inroads into all kinds of media and have laid the foundation for CLSA to take advantage of these media opportunities through print, TV, news, and other outlets, to no avail as there is no interest.

As you may have observed, I get a lot of media coverage. I have tried over and over again to redirect media inquiries to CLSA and inevitably the reporter or interviewer ask me, "What is CLSA?" No one knows what the California surveyor does. Indeed, I get calls from all over the state on these kind of issue and I try to redirect them to CLSA but no one at CLSA is interested. No one returns calls or emails. There are so many wonderful opportunities to elevate the profession in a positive way - to create a voice that would be heard - but there is no interest. We should be sending people to Sacramento to lobby and meet our elected officials and the profession should be consulted on these issues but there is no interest. None. Zero.

I continually send ideas and I and others have presented numerous opportunities to CLSA, to no avail as there is no interest. There is an old saying, "If you're not part of the answer, you're part of the problem."

LS_8750 · Post by **LS_8750** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:26 pm

"Screaming at a wall!" .. To quote an early 1980s punk band.

You could "tear down the building just to pass through the door" (another 1980s punk band quote), but what are you left with? Inside equals outside.

One day you wake up 40 something and realize it is easier just to walk around that silly wall. No walls seal off the universe.

I've been dealing with rules all my life, the "you can't do this" and the "can't do that." Oh! And the "Boy, I've been doing this for thirty years!" Yeah, bollocks! Pretty soon I'm gonna be that old man.

Yes, license required. The depths of knowledge I possess cannot even begin to be understood by the layperson. The modern day mapping professional (GISP included) and all forms of mapping professional affiliates, yes they categorically have no idea of what it means to create a survey, to map. Thoreau took years out of his life to study the science of land surveying. The entire scope of "Walden" was to describe a survey.

TIB · Post by **TIB** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:08 pm

why does it seem like everyone is so threatened by these types of outfits making cruddy plan maps or whatever you call it. leave em be they are not a threat to business or profession homeowner is not gonna swap this $250 plat for a $2500 survey done by professional

mpallamary · Post by **mpallamary** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:34 pm

How about this?

http://link.brightcove.com/services/pla ... 1089349001

bruce hall · Post by **bruce hall** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:54 pm

that video is on another thread.

mpallamary · Post by **mpallamary** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:46 pm

Thanks! Just saw that!

LS_8750 · Post by **LS_8750** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:14 pm

Mr. TIB,
Could your position be akin to the moral relativity associated with coat hanger abortions?

There is a victim here. Yes, there is cause for concern. Much.

LS_8750 · Post by **LS_8750** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:33 pm

6731.1 of the PE Act and 8726 of the PLS Act basically define "surveying" in California.

I look at the law enforcement and accident and crime scene reconstruction industry, and they claim their "measurements" are precise, I'm guessing they might mean accurate as well.

How is it that they can take their maps into a deposition or court room and make accuracy claims without infringing on Pls Act 8726 or PE Act 6731.1?

My guess to the point is that this industry regularly infringes on the PE and PLS Act with impunity.

land butcher · Post by **land butcher** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:02 am

Maybe court experienced Land Surveyors should go to the defendants on these court cases where "trained" police personal have done the crime/accident scene topo and rip them regarding training, accuracy, calibration of equipt, closing of loops on multiple setups etc. Lose a few of those cases and we might get that work back.
City of Tustin has a instrument man in complete police garb that I have to wonder how he ties his shoes let alone pass a police physical. Probably can't so they make him a crime/accident scene "surveyor.

I really don't know the purpose of CLSA other than collecting membership fees and hosting this web site.

Dave Karoly, PLS · Post by **Dave Karoly, PLS** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:41 pm

Shiny badge and gun trumps LS license.

Jim Frame · Post by **Jim Frame** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:01 pm

Lose a few of those cases and we might get that work back.

I don't think "we" ever had that work. The kind of topos the police do have to be done ASAP before the evidence gets disturbed by the very pressing need to reopen the roads. Even if each police agency in the state was required to maintain a list of on-call licensees, how many firms on the list would actually respond to a call at 2:00 a.m. to do a topo in the next hour so that the road can be opened again? My guess is none.

Some accident reconstruction surveying isn't very time sensitive. I've only worked on a few of such projects, and my work took place anywhere from a few days to a few years after the accident. Those are properly in the domain of private-sector licensed land surveyors. But the ones that have to happen in the next hour can realistically be done by only by public agency emergency response personnel. Given the necessary response times and ungodly hours often involved, they can have it.

Police topos may be more vulnerable to challenge on the basis of education and experience of the folks who perform the work, but I doubt that many civil accident cases hinge on those matters.

land butcher · Post by **land butcher** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:24 pm

Dave Karoly, PLS wrote:Shiny badge and gun trumps LS license.

Yep, even when it comes to Right of Entry and when you are on property you have been hired to survey.

Ric7308 · Post by **Ric7308** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:20 pm

You guys need to check out 8730(d). Attempts were made about 12-15 years ago to limit law enforcement doing this and law enforcement lobbyists are very influential which resulted in this exemption

Jim Frame · Post by **Jim Frame** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:54 pm

That exemption makes sense to me. A police topo could still be challenged in a civil case, though. Â§8730(d) says cops can practice land surveying without a license, but it doesn't say that their work in that regard is necessarily competent.

Warren Smith · Post by **Warren Smith** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:35 am

I have been involved in several jurisdictional surveys for homicides. In each case, the police technicians performed the data collection of the evidence from a random baseline. I would tie the baseline into control points and calculate City/County boundaries, right of way, or limits between adjacent Cities.
The District Attorney would lay out a good series of documentation for prosecution.
Seemed to be a workable arrangement.

Stephen Johnson · Post by **Stephen Johnson** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:37 am

land butcher wrote:Yep, even when it comes to Right of Entry and when you are on property you have been hired to survey.

I have never had that problem.

I have also been on both sides of that badge.

SJ

LS_8750 · Post by **LS_8750** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:30 am

Ok, 8730(d) is noted.
That does not exempt forensic investigation firms from 8726 or 6731.1.

Ric7308 · Post by **Ric7308** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:29 am

Clark, you are correct. 8730(d) is very specific to "employees" and does not apply to consultants. We've had this come up several times at BPELSG

California Surveyors Forums

License Required?

not a threat

Hey Michael,

Oops