Am I missing something?

PDub · Post by **PDub** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:48 am

Maybe I had too much red wine last night, but help me out with something. I have been coming across instances where Lot lines have been adjusted, thus creating a line which heretofore does not show up on any previously recorded maps. How then is there no requirement to file a Record of Survey? I could not find an exception for lot line adjustments in the requirements for filing Records of Survey. For me, the practical application of this is if I am asked by a client to monument this adjusted line, I must file a record of survey, as opposed to a simple Corner Record. Is there really no requirement to file a Record of Survey when adjusting Lot Lines?

dmi · Post by **dmi** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:43 pm

Read the SMA exception for lot line adjustments carefully.

"No record of survey shall be required for a lot line adjustment UNLESSrequired by Section 8762 of the Business and Professions Code.

PDub · Post by **PDub** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:37 pm

So the phrase, "performance of a field survey" in this paragraph
"(5) The points or lines set during the performance of a field survey of any parcel described in any deed or other instrument of title recorded in the county
recorder's office are not shown on any subdivision map, official map, or
record of survey.", is the caveat? So if a Lot-Line Adjustment is performed without the benefit of a field survey, then it is exempt from a ROS? Am I interpreting this correctly?

LS 4722 · Post by **LS 4722** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:48 pm

A LLA is just a desktop survey after you do some fieldwork that locates what the agency wants to get the new line approved.

For instance, say the client wanted to shift the current line to 6" from its current position to make a block wall 1" clear of the new line. You locate the wall, create a new line, get approval and that's it.

Am I interpreting this correctly?

No

Am I missing something

Yes. this part .......of any parcel described in any deed or other instrument of title

Prior to approval and the recordation of deeds for the adjusted line, it simply does not exist.

dmi · Post by **dmi** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:07 am

I would consider (4) as well. Imagine starting with parcels that are all deeds parcels to begin with , meaning none of which appear on any map. If you survey to establish these lines, in order to move the line between them so that it clears a wall by 1", then it seems to me that you have hit one of the RS triggers.

PDub · Post by **PDub** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:13 am

LS 4722, that sounds like legal gobbledygook. For whose benefit was this written? Of course the new lot line doesn't exist before you record the LLA, but once recorded it is a property line in a new location, not shown on any recorded map. Relying on an Assessor's Map to show the LLA, or requesting a Title Report in order to provide an estimate for any boundary survey? That the fact that I, the retracing Surveyor is left with the responsibility of filing the Record of Survey leaves me feeling incredulous...

LS 4722 · Post by **LS 4722** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:46 am

PDub wrote:LS 4722, that sounds like legal gobbledygook. ...

No, just basic common sense

PDub · Post by **PDub** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:53 am

Whose common sense is this based on? I agree it reads clearly
enough, but why should one be able to move a property line and not have that be recorded by map? Sounds like something a lawyer came up with and not a Land Surveyor. I'm not questioning what is, I'm questioning why is?

Warren Smith · Post by **Warren Smith** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:20 pm

A lot line adjustment is an exception to the provisions of the Subdivision Map Act, pursuant to local ordinance.

In San Joaquin County, about half of the LLAs are filed concurrently with a record of survey. Once the approval is granted and recorded, the RS is filed. Roughly half of the remaining applications are subsequently monumented when a building permit is issued and the building inspector wants to check setbacks.

The alternative is a tentative and parcel map.

LS 4722 · Post by **LS 4722** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:43 pm

...but why should one be able to move a property line and not have that be recorded by map?...

Even if a LLA map was recorded with the county it is not a subdivision map and to qualify of not having to do an RS the map has to be recorded and a subdivision. An LLA does not create a new lot, just shifts lines around.

Ric7308 · Post by **Ric7308** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:04 pm

PDub,

You may want to refer back to the BPELSG article in California Surveyor Issue #155 and the article on the revisions to the CEAC Guide for Record of Surveys and Corner Records in Issue #151 as both of these articles mention 8764(b)(4) and (5) relative to LLA's.

Hope this helps,
Ric

PDub · Post by **PDub** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:25 pm

Thanks Ric. I understand the Article. I just don't like it. There are surveyors still arguing over whether or not an ALTA triggers a ROS. In my mind, the survey of an unmapped line calls for a map (as does the shifting of a previously unmapped line). IMHO...

dmi · Post by **dmi** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:47 pm

I get your point. A map ought to be in order, if no other reason than to be consistent with public policy objectives

T. S. Higgins · Post by **T. S. Higgins** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:59 am

One point to be considered is that two neighbors who want to shift a line 5.00 feet for a flower bed probably don't want to do so if an additional (in my county) $700.00 is attached to it because of an RoS filing requirement.

Of course, that's more of an issue with high RoS filing fees rather than the requirement to file a map. I've had several potential clients that have decided not to go ahead with a project because of the potential for a 8762 trigger and the associated costs.

California Surveyors Forums

Am I missing something?

Am I missing something?

the answer is in the SMA

Am I Missing Something

PDub

yep that is it

Pdub

Common Sense

PDub

Ok, I'm done

yep DUB