change to 8726

[Mr. Smith]

Does anybody know what the Union is proposing to change on 8726 (the definition of LS)?

[E_Page]

I don't see anything at leginfo relative to a change to the definition of surveying practice, but did find AB 251, which is a bill to change the definition of public works to include private developments that get a subsidy of greater than $25,000 or 1% of the project cost. This change is for the purpose of requiring prevailing wage to be paid on such projects (and to in effect secure them as union projects). Additionally, it pulls in a lot of preconstruction work, including surveying, into the definition of work on a public works project.

Did you hear something credible about Operating Engineers (or some other union) working to alter the definition of surveying practice, or to revise 8726 specifically?

[TTaylor]

Evan, the agenda for the upcoming BPELSG LSTAC has an item on OE local 3 and their suggestion of revisions to 8726.

No info on the net anywhere as to what that might be. Hopefully, we will hear from Ric or the LSTAC as to what is being discussed.

[Ric7308]

IUOE No. 3 asked us to facilitate a meeting on their ideas for revising the definition of land surveying. Since we had an LSTAC meeting coming up, Pat agreed to include it on the agenda for the purposes of an open forum for all interested parties to hear from the union on their reasons and to discuss the proposed revisions. Anyone interested is encouraged to attend.

The LSTAC meeting materials should be posted sometime next week on the BPELSG site. Since this is a proposal by others, we will only include the proposed language in those materials if the union provides it for that purpose. Otherwise, they may wish to bring it directly to the meeting themselves.

[TTaylor]

See page 20.

http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/about_us/meeti ... erials.pdf

After reviewing the proposed language, I am of the opinion that most of it is redundant or unnecessary. Also, historically, the LSAct has stayed away from listing any type of equipment as the service provided (creating a topographic map) is key and not the equipment. Plus listing equipment would require continual revisions to the Act.

IMO, if OE3 is having problems with contractors using equipment to get volumes or producing basically contour maps (topographic maps) they should lodge a complaint with the Board.

Of course, I am willing to be persuaded to an alternate point of view from a well reasoned argument.

[pls7809]

I personally agree with you Tom. Scanning is a tool in the toolbox. How can we regulate who uses a certain tool? The representation and presentation of what the tool produces is what we should be concerned about and we are covered already under 8726.

[Peter Ehlert]

I agree with the above comments... Maybe "the Union" could explain what battle they fighting, and who they are fighting with.
this method appears to be faulty.

(Ric: love the avatar)

[gpsmagician]

It looks like the Unions want to take over surveying. Does the licensing board have any opinions about this?

[Ric7308]

It looks like the Unions want to take over surveying. Does the licensing board have any opinions about this?

That is not how it was characterized to me by the person from Local 3 that provided it. For those of you that do not interact with OE Local 3, there is a group of firms that have contracts with the union for field surveyors that is known as the California & Nevada Civil Engineers and Land Surveyors Association, Inc.. While I am not sure, it is very likely that this language is a joint effort from that association and Local 3. Anyone attending the LSTAC meeting next week could ask them to verify that.

[gpsmagician]

Thank you. I used to be in the union and they wanted to change the definition to cover more of the things they do like using GPS and other equipment. It gets very confusing with all the laws and regulations as the lines seem to be pretty blurred.

[gpsmagician]

What is the LSTAC?

[Peter Ehlert]

What is the LSTAC?

Read the PDF linked above

[Edward Reading]

From what I hear: it's the Land Surveyor Technical Advisory Committee
Of The BPELS&G. But I could be mistaken...

[gpsmagician]

Thank you Peter and Edward. I am new to the site and learning. Peter or Ric7308. Who is Stan Myron? Remember John Galt from Atlas Shrugged? That is a great book. Is it the same thing? I loved that book.

[Jim Frame]

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

John Rogers

[gpsmagician]

Thank you. I never read any of the Lord of the Rings books. What are orcs? I am not familiar with that term.

[Raymond Mathe]

§8715 - §8715.4 of the PLS Act details the Land Surveyor Technical Advisory Committee or LS TAC. Committee members are appointed by the Board to advise and assist the board with respect to the following:

(1) The review and verification of applications for licensure.
(2) The evaluation and investigation of potential violations of this chapter.
(3) The amendment, repeal, adoption, or revision of board rules, regulations, policies, or procedures.

Given the fact that our Board has 15 members and only 1 land surveyor and one civil engineer who may or may not have surveying experience it can be good to have 5 other land surveyors with varied backgrounds and experiences look at land surveying related issues and provide the Board input to help the Board with their decisions.

Current LS TAC Members are:
Scott (Landon) Blake, P.L.S.
Michael S. Butcher, P.L.S.
Paul J. Enneking, P.L.S.
Greg Hopkins, P.L.S.
Edward M. Reading, P.L.S.

[Cody Hustead]

Let me google that for you.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=orcs

[gpsmagician]

Mr. Mathe, thank you for the help with clarifying the LS TAC. That makes a lot of sense.

Am I missing something with the Stan Myron/John Galt thing? I am sorry I am not quite catching all of this. Does it have to do with the proposed change to 8726? I am confused.

[gpsmagician]

I googled Stan Myron and found this. I am really confused now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Myron_Handelman

[pls7809]

You're probably better off not worrying about Stan Myron. If you really want to know, you may be able to search his name on the forum, but I'm not sure if his posts or others related to that are still on here.

[gpsmagician]

Thank you pls7809. You guys are a funny group.

[Tom Herrin]

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

John Rogers

Got a good laugh out of this one - thanks for the quote. Was a die hard LOTR fan growing up, it was hard to swallow a lot of the changes made in the movie versions over the past few years.