A single boundary line survey, and how to document it.

[Mr. Smith]

Agree, Just a few comments and lots of lurkers cause of possible ridicule.

Can we agree no one knows all? Can we agree there are NO stupid questions except the ones
we do not ask?

on a different note see attached work from yesterday. Nothing better to pass along to
the new surveyors what was passed on to me.

[mpallamary]

Nice!

[mpallamary]

Olin, I make a living up and down the State of California defending surveyors who get sued. I have testified in over 100 lawsuits involving surveys and surveyors. When the post was made, the following note was included:

"Comments and constructive criticism welcome."

I viewed that as an invitation. I really don't need to know much more. The note is odd, in my opinion, and suggests doubt in the mind of the poster. My comments are not intended to be harsh; they are in direct response to the request. I figure the quicker one figures out which direction to go, the less likely they are to get in trouble. The responses are a good indication of a good topic.

Every single survey we do should be able to withstand a vigorous and spirited challenge in a court of law.

Onward and upward.

[Olin Edmundson]

Mike, Yes I'm aware of your credentials as you've mentioned more than a few time on this forum. You indeed did offer criticism though I'm not sure it was exactly constructive criticism as was requested by the poster. From the comments, the primary issues that this thread brought up were, 1) is it ever appropriate to survey just one line? and 2) should you be setting monuments at the approximate intersection of the line with nearby corners. There seems to be a consensus that you shouldn't be setting anything near the corners if you don't know exactly where this position is (the note is unnecessary if you don't try this) As to item 1, you seem to believe that it is never appropriate under any circumstances to survey just one line, is that correct?

[mpallamary]

I have surveyed single lines and it is appropriate as long as I have documented how I did it. Single line surveys are great as are single corners. When you need to add a tortured note explaining, in essence, what you didn't do, there is a problem. Every survey should stand on its own without disclaimers. I like single line surveys as long as they can be explained without resorting to a note.

[mpallamary]

I have surveyed single lines and it is appropriate as long as I have documented how I did it. Single line surveys are great as are single corners. When you need to add a tortured note explaining, in essence, what you didn't do, there is a problem. Every survey should stand on its own without disclaimers. I like single line surveys as long as they can be explained without resorting to a note.

[-Dave Ryan-]

That's a great response and I would guess very helpful and valuable to the person who posted the original question back on August 14th.

[Peter Ehlert]

I have surveyed single lines and it is appropriate as long as I have documented how I did it. Single line surveys are great as are single corners. When you need to add a tortured note explaining, in essence, what you didn't do, there is a problem. Every survey should stand on its own without disclaimers. I like single line surveys as long as they can be explained without resorting to a note.

I agree Mike.


reconsider your other responses.

[mpallamary]

Hi Peter,

I did. Time permitting I would add more.

[Mr. Smith]

So I establish the north line of section 19 and my client wants 3/4" ip's set every 330'.
Filing a Record of Survey of that one line and tagged ip's works for me.



Brian

[mpallamary]

Me too!

[William Magee]

So I establish the north line of section 19 and my client wants 3/4" ip's set every 330'.
Filing a Record of Survey of that one line and tagged ip's works for me.

Brian

Seems fine assuming the end points (section, 1/4, 1/16) end points are already set. But the theme I'm getting from this thread is regarding situations where the end points are missing. Apples v oranges.

[Anthony Maffia]

It was hypothetical...

How to limit liability when the R/W is impossible to locate, e.g. The Map of the Town of Larkspur? Do your best, and state that the front corner is intended to be for line if someone disagrees where you placed the R/W.

My version:

The intent of this survey is to locate the side and rear lot lines. The R/W of XXX Street cannot be located per record. The front lot corners are set on the side lines at the intersection of our best location for the R/W, and they should be treated as line points if a later survey locates the R/W differently.

[Olin Edmundson]

No one besides surveyors read notes. If there is something in the ground, they'll hop on it and build to it.

I have a court case coming up where three neighbors have relied on a Record of Survey performed in 2005. The map calls one of the monuments off by 0.24' I've talked to all three neighbors, all of them know where this pipe is, and accept it as the corner, but none of them have any idea that the pipe, according to their 2005 surveyor's incorrect opinion, is not the corner. Why would they think any differently...there is something in the ground that is marking something.

[mpallamary]

The note is great but why not solve the problem? I don't mean to be cavalier but has anyone run the streets out? I believe it can be done.

[LA Stevens]

@ Maffia

The Amended map of Larkspur that I have attached can help. The City has a full size map on the wall at City Hall that has additional information on it as well. You may also need to determine the original deeds in the area. When surveying in the past in this area of Larkspur, I have found old deeds (late 1800's or early 1900's) that had bearings and distances for all of the lot lines. Surveying in these type of areas can take a bunch of research of historical documents and archives to rectify correctly.

If ambiguities exist after a thorough investigation, you can help your client and their adjoiners fix the issues with a line of agreement, etc...