Can a survey be Not based on a field survey?

[sako]

The planner in a City in Bay area insists that I have to add wordings in my "Surveyor's Statement" to specify that my topographic and boundary survey was actually based on a field survey.
This is my Statement:
THIS MAP CORRECTLY REPRESENTS A SURVEY MADE BY ME
OR UNDER MY DIRECTION IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PROFESSIONAL LAND SURVEYORS' ACT AT THE REQUEST OF ....IN ..... OF 2019.
This is the statement they have in their handout for requirements of topographic and boundary survey:
“I certify that this parcel’s boundary was established by me or under my supervision and is based on a field survey in conformance with the Land Surveyor’s Act. All monuments are of the character and occupy the positions indicated and are sufficient to enable the survey to be retraced.”

I couldn't comply with their statement since I didn't set any monuments ( I know, it triggers the ROS or CR).

[mpallamary]

I have a statement that I use and instead of referencing a survey, I reference "work performed."

[mpallamary]

The answer is yes, of course.

[sako]

The answer is yes, of course.

Would you please explain with some examples?
A surveyor prepares descriptions, LLA which could NOT be as result of an actual survey, but a topographic and boundary survey (as titled on my map) is an obvious work of the field with all the elevation shots, found pipes.
The German translation of Surveyor is "Vermesser" which contains the word "messen" which means "measuring".
You see the word "measuring" in most definitions of Surveying.

[mpallamary]

If you mention "boundary" you are committed.

[mpallamary]

This is an area CLSA needs to address at some time: There are conflicts under the SMA.

ARTICLE 3. Parcel Maps [66444 - 66450] ( Article 3 added by Stats. 1974, Ch. 1536. )

66444. The content and form of parcel maps shall be governed by the provisions of this article.
(Added by Stats. 1974, Ch. 1536.)

66445. The parcel map shall be prepared by, or under the direction of, a registered civil engineer or licensed land surveyor, shall show the location of streets and property lines bounding the property, and shall conform to all of the following provisions:

(a) It shall be legibly drawn, printed, or reproduced by a process guaranteeing a permanent record in black on tracing cloth or polyester base film. Certificates or statements, affidavits, and acknowledgments may be legibly stamped or printed upon the map with opaque ink. If ink is used on polyester base film, the ink surface shall be coated with a suitable substance to assure permanent legibility.
(b) The size of each sheet shall be 18 by 26 inches or 460 by 660 millimeters. A marginal line shall be drawn completely around each sheet, leaving an entirely blank margin of one inch or 025 millimeters. The scale of the map shall be large enough to show all details clearly and enough sheets shall be used to accomplish this end. The particular number of the sheet and the total number of sheets comprising the map shall be stated on each of the sheets, and its relation to each adjoining sheet shall be clearly shown.
(c) Each parcel shall be numbered or lettered and each block may be numbered or lettered. Each street shall be named or otherwise designated. The subdivision number shall be shown together with the description of the real property being subdivided.

(d) (1) The exterior boundary of the land included within the subdivision shall be indicated by distinctive symbols and clearly so designated. The exterior boundary of the land included within the subdivision shall not include a designated remainder or omitted parcel that is designated or omitted under Section 66424.6. The designated remainder parcel or omitted parcel shall be labeled as a designated remainder parcel or an omitted parcel.
(2) The map shall show the location of each parcel and its relation to surrounding surveys. If the map includes a “designated remainder” parcel or similar parcel, and the gross area of the “designated remainder” parcel or similar parcel is five acres or more, that remainder parcel need not be shown on the map and its location need not be indicated as a matter of survey, but only by deed reference to the existing boundaries of the remainder parcel.
(3) A parcel designated as “not a part” shall be deemed to be a “designated remainder” for purposes of this section.
(e) Subject to the provisions of Section 66436, a statement, signed and acknowledged by all parties having any record title interest in the real property subdivided, consenting to the preparation and recordation of the parcel map is required, except that less inclusive requirements may be provided by local ordinance.
With respect to a division of land into four or fewer parcels, where dedications or offers of dedications are not required, the statement shall be signed and acknowledged by the subdivider only. If the subdivider does not have a record title ownership interest in the property to be divided, the local agency may require that the subdivider provide the local agency with satisfactory evidence that the persons with record title ownership have consented to the proposed division. For purposes of this paragraph, “record title ownership” means fee title of record unless a leasehold interest is to be divided, in which case “record title ownership” means ownership of record of the leasehold interest. Record title ownership does not include ownership of mineral rights or other subsurface interests that have been severed from ownership of the surface.

(f) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, local agencies may require that those statements and acknowledgments required pursuant to subdivision (e) be made by separate instrument to be recorded concurrently with the parcel map being filed for record.
(g) On and after January 1, 1987, no additional survey and map requirements shall be included on a parcel map that do not affect record title interests. However, the map shall contain a notation of reference to survey and map information required by a local ordinance adopted pursuant to Section 66434.2.
(h) Whenever a certificate or acknowledgment is made by separate instrument, there shall appear on the parcel map a reference to the separately recorded document. This reference shall be completed by the county recorder pursuant to Section 66468.1.
(i) If a field survey was performed, the parcel map shall contain a statement by the engineer or surveyor responsible for the preparation of the map that states that all monuments are of the character and occupy the positions indicated, or that they will be set in those positions on or before a specified date, and that the monuments are, or will be, sufficient to enable the survey to be retraced.
(j) Any public streets or public easements to be left in effect after the subdivision shall be adequately delineated on the map. The filing of the parcel map shall constitute abandonment of all public streets and public easements not shown on the map, provided that a written notation of each abandonment is listed by reference to the recording data or other official record creating these public streets or public easements and certified to on the map by the clerk of the legislative body or the designee of the legislative body approving the map. Before a public easement vested in another public entity may be abandoned pursuant to this section, that public entity shall receive notice of the proposed abandonment. No public easement vested in another public entity shall be abandoned pursuant to this section if that public entity objects to the proposed abandonment.
(Amended by Stats. 2009, Ch. 332, Sec. 74. (SB 113) Effective January 1, 2010.)

66448. In all cases where a parcel map is required, the parcel map shall be based upon a field survey made in conformity with the Land Surveyors Act when required by local ordinance, or, in absence of that requirement, shall be based either upon a field survey made in conformity with the Land Surveyors Act or be compiled from recorded or filed data when sufficient recorded or filed survey monumentation presently exists to enable the retracement of the exterior boundary lines of the parcel map and the establishment of the interior parcel or lot lines of the parcel map.

[E_Page]

Seems to me that the question isn't whether a survey requires a filed survey, but whether a field survey requires monumentation to be considered complete.

The answer to that is... No, in many circumstances monumentation is not required for a field survey to be considered complete. It depends upon the purpose(s) for which the survey is intended.


To address a common misapplication of terminology with regard to land surveying, many, including nearly all non-surveyors and (discouragingly) most surveyors, when referring to a map of a survey, will refer to that map as a "survey".

A "map" is never a "survey".

In correct usage, the terms "survey" and "field survey" are synonymous. There is both legal and technical authority that supports this.

The reason using the terminology properly should be important to us is that 1) many maps are not based on a field survey, 2) some are based partially on field survey and partially on record and/or calculated information, and 3) even if based on a field survey, a map is merely a graphical representation of the survey and not the survey itself.

A map based on a field survey may or may not accurately reflect the survey, and in most cases does not completely reflect the field survey. Often, aspects of the survey which are or seem to be irrelevant or of very minor importance to the purpose of the survey are purposely left off the map. It is often impossible or impractical to depict every detail of a thorough field survey on a map.

When boundaries are established by survey, it is the survey which is ultimately controlling. Not the deed and not the map of the survey, but the survey as performed in the field. If evidence of the field survey is found which conflicts with deed, map or other documentary record, the field evidence prevails. If we allow or worse, encourage the misuse of the word "survey" when what is meant is "map", we encourage misunderstanding which could at times result in improper application of policy or bad policy at the local level, bad court decisions, and bad law.

I couldn't comply with their statement since I didn't set any monuments ( I know, it triggers the ROS or CR).

Just to make sure... Are you familiar with all of the triggers which require that an RS be filed? I ask because many believe that setting monuments is the trigger and aren't actually familiar with the statute that enumerates the triggers.

B&P 8762 (b) list of RS triggers:

(1) Material evidence or physical change, which in whole or in part does not appear on any [record map]. [Setting monuments in places where they did not previously exist would fall under this one]

(2) A material discrepancy with the information contained in any [record map]. For purposes of this subdivision, a “material discrepancy” is limited to a material discrepancy in the position of points or lines, or in dimensions.

(3) Evidence that, by reasonable analysis, might result in materially alternate positions of lines or points, shown on any [record map].

(4) The location, relocation, establishment, reestablishment, or retracement of one or more points or lines not shown on any [record map].

(5) The points or lines set... described in any deed... not shown on any [record map].


Assuming that you were already aware of all this and there were no other 8762 triggers encountered in your survey, my next question is: Was there any requirement for monumentation 1) in your contract, 2) in your client's expressed expectations, or 3) in the requirements of the City's ordinances or other published guidelines for the type of project the drawing was submitted for?

If not, the City's certification is inapplicable in that it infers a requirement which was not in place.

Aside from the part about monuments, the City's certification is essentially the same as yours.

[sako]

Evan,
The contract was for a topographic and boundary survey, no request by the owner to mark the property corners.
I was complaining that the statement as mentioned in handout doesn't completely apply to my survey, but I realized I'm talking to Non surveyors, just planners who were told by their supervisor to check the wording, if they see deviations, they should request corrections.
I ended up adding the field survey part to my statement to make everybody happy.

[E_Page]

Sounds like a reasonable compromise.