Certificate of Correction? who does that?

[sako]

Most of the time when going back on a site where I did a PM or TM, to set the corners, I find new fences built on PL, so I have to set offset corners and file COC. ( I have to say I have never found those offset pipes from other surveyors, when searched for)
I have contacted a City in Bay Area to ask them for their specific sample of COC, I was told in his many years of being City engineer he has seen only ONE of them being filed. Am I kidding myself? What's the use of those offset points when they are to be destroyed by the landscaping crew?( I assume).
Your opinion as always is appreciated.

[Jim Frame]

I can think of a three of ways of dealing with this without the hassle of a Certificate of Correction. Two are totally legit, the other technically a bit shady but with a rational result.

1. Don't show back corner monuments on your filed map -- set only front corners and/or offsets to same where they'll survive construction. The survey is retraceable and you don't waste back monuments that you know are going to be removed by the fencing crew. You can set construction stakes for the fence people to use if need be.

2. If agency requirements specify that back corner monuments are to be set, get them in the ground before the fence people get there. Done.

3. If agency requirements specify that back corner monuments are to be set, but for some reason you can't set the rear corners before the fencing happens, set your rear offsets and file a Corner Record showing same. The shady part is that you never set the actual back corners as stated on the filed map, but, hey, conditions changed and the Corner Record preserves the monument provenance.

[PLS7393]

This issue too many times is common when a surveyor defers the setting of monuments. I always interpreted the purpose of this to be for street monuments for obvious reasons. Once a map files, the boundary points identified on the map should be set. You've already done your boundary resolution and no reason to not set them before construction. This also assists the contractor where the boundary is. I would suggest to the surveyor set them, send in a letter satisfying Section 66497 of the SMA to the agency stating the exterior monuments have been set. Your done, no need to go back. Time and time again, the firm would not set the exterior, and now the condo project has an 8 foot wall around the exterior. The City never received a letter, so legally Section 66497 was never satisfied and we would make the surveyor go set the points. they would come back stating concrete footings are now in place and they set a nail and tag. Different character, so we would require them to record a C.O.C. to satisfy the SMA. My favorite was when the surveyor came back after construction saying he can't set the corners because it falls between the block wall and BART's cyclone fence, oh well figure it out, lol.

They didn't like it, but we explained to them it is easier to set up in the middle of the undeveloped property and shoot in the corners before construction, but they didn't take our advice.

I use this process myself on any map needing to defer any interior monuments due to construction, and I love when the agency asked me what the letter is all about. Most cities in the Bay Area do not have a surveyor on staff, and the engineers in charge are not surveyors, so that speaks for itself. I guess very few surveyors actually send in letters to the agency, and satisfy Section 66497 of the SMA when required.

[sako]

I take your points, but what's the purpose of setting exterior corners ( as required by SMA) if they get knocked down by the fence construction crew? If the answer is, OK just set offset points, I already answered it in original post, they will eventually get destroyed as well. Why not just settle for the street monuments?

[PLS7393]

Why not just settle for the street monuments?

Think about it? How long does it take to set street monuments??? Once that map is filed, and the exterior points are shown as "SET", shouldn't a competent surveyor be able to find them? Your crew has already been to the site how many times, and the boundary is established by now.

When you get a call from an adjoiner questioning the boundary because a new development they put up a temporary fence in the rose bushes. You get the job and find a newly filed map showing monuments set, and think cool, slam dunk! Retrace, find "SET IRON PIPES", on to the next job. Give a fair estimate, and you or your crew can't find any iron pipes??? Extra time on the phone contacting the surveyor, and then you have to send the crew back out to actually set your points, and file a corner record which may or may not be in your contract since you expected to find the points shown on a one month old map?

Been there, done that my friend, and the City of Hayward changed their policy because of that. Especially parcel maps that did not defer setting monuments. Too many firms would say they set points, but never did, so we would do a visual drive by after receiving a letter satisfying 66497 to confirm the character matched the map, before we released the mylar for filing.

[hellsangle]

Ahhhh, Keith . . .

It's all about quantity of surveys rather than quality of surveys. (How could you make a final statement without doing ALL the work?!)

Have a good week . . .

Crazy Phil Surveyor-Recorder

[PLS7393]

(How could you make a final statement without doing ALL the work?!)

That's a good question for SAKO?

You too have a good week my friend!!!

BTW your concept makes sooooo much sense these days, . . Surveyor-Recorder! I'll gladly take the liability.

[sako]

My COC is ready to be recorded, sitting on the desk. its for the City of San Leandro. The engineer in charge of PM's (Mr.Toste) doesn't respond to my numerous phone calls asking him for his email to send the COC. Today I called the director of Engineering & Transportation Dep, he didn't pick up (left message). I called another associate of Mr. Toste, he didn't pick up. I called the administrative manager, she didn't pick up.
Mr. Toste told me weeks ago, he has seen one of these COC's in last 10 years. What an endangered species are these COC's.

[Ian Wilson]

My COC is ready to be recorded, sitting on the desk. its for the City of San Leandro. The engineer in charge of PM's (Mr.Toste) doesn't respond to my numerous phone calls asking him for his email to send the COC. Today I called the director of Engineering & Transportation Dep, he didn't pick up (left message). I called another associate of Mr. Toste, he didn't pick up. I called the administrative manager, she didn't pick up.
Mr. Toste told me weeks ago, he has seen one of these COC's in last 10 years. What an endangered species are these COC's.

PM Sent

[PLS7393]

Seems my 30 years of working in the Bay Area has paid off, cause I have a direct "Bat" line to a number of individuals I have worked with over the years, including the City of San Leandro. Sako I have never had the issues you speak of. Maybe you called on the wrong day, if the city is still on an alternate work schedule as a number of cities are still on.

Remember the City of San Leandro does not have a staff surveyor, so the City Engineer technically should not be reviewing your C.O.C.

Good luck!!!