San Benito County

[John Williams, PLS]

Does anyone have advice for map research in San Benito County. I'm likely looking at original GLO boundary, but if a record of Survey is out there I'd like to know. I haven't been able to contact County Surveyor or Public Works.

Thanks
John Williams

[John Williams, PLS]

Thank you. Public Works Dept. called me today, although the person I need to research with is out for a week and a half. It was nice to have a follow up to let me know.

[LS_8750]

Any word on how to research maps in San Benito County?
Looked up DPW and their website is nearly blank.

Please advise.
Cheers,
Clark

[mpallamary]

Does this help?

http://tiepoints.com/index_files/Page2698.htm

[ekparian]

San Benito County still does it the old fashioned way. It's like 20+ per sheet if I remember correct, paper copies. You can research at assessors office on their computer one apn at a time. There is also a gis site (new) to see apn map and record map recording info only. If you find a file no. You need to see the assessors file, possibly a lla or other. Most map books are in assessors office for viewing, pay and pickup at recorder's office upstairs. They now have them digital, but last I checked, only give paper to keep the ability to charge high dollar. Assessors is currently closed due to pandemic. I'm waiting to research myself.
There is a way to order maps online at recorder's office if you know what you need but unable to view before purchasing.

If someone knows a better way, please share!

[Jim Frame]

They now have them digital, but last I checked, only give paper to keep the ability to charge high dollar.

File a PRA request for the digital files. That's what I had to do in Yolo County after getting ignored by 3 successive Recorders over a period of 20 years. It took months of emails, letters, a letter to County Counsel and a phone call from an attorney friend to County Counsel, but they finally came through with a thumb drive containing all their maps. No provision for updating, but at least the maps through mid-2019 are now available without charge, hosted by CLSA Central Valley Chapter.

[ekparian]

Jim,
That is a great idea, thank you. What did you say in your pra request? It might take some time to find where to submit it...
What role did clsa play? You just gave the thumb drive to them and the put it online?

[mpallamary]

There are no rules to a PRA. You do not have to explain your reasons. See the attached. They CANNOT charge you for their time.

I have attached a copy of a letter I sent here in San Diego. Be as specific as possible. They have 10 days to respond to you.

Good luck!

[David Kendall]

Be as specific as possible.

This is important. I sent a PRA request to CalTrans District 4 about a year and a half ago looking for survey records (they told me to send it if I wanted any survey records) and they flat out ignored it on the grounds that it was "overbroad". The head survey guy called me and told me this over the phone and then they ignored all of my follow-up questions. Next I paid an attorney $500 to assist in the query and he reviewed the situation and basically said what Pallamary says above.

[Jim Frame]

I've attached the letter I sent to the Yolo County Recorder in 2018, FYI.

With regard to putting them on a website, Keith Spencer did that. I believe he controls the CLSA Central Chapter website, and all I had to do was send him a thumb drive containing the files.

[mpallamary]

I submitted a PRA request to CALTRANS and they fought me all the way, Here is the resultant email string.

At first they refused and I sent them the Supreme Court ruling. They then said I had to sign a confidentiality agreement. I crossed most everything out and told them what they were asking me to do was illegal.

Public Records are paid for by tax dollars. Do not let any public agency refuse to give them to you.

If they refuse, do not request - Demand!

[David Kendall]

Mr Pallamary -

That is very similar to my experience with District 4. Finally I got a phone call from the district office chief who acted like he was going to help me then decided not to and then everyone stopped responding to my emails completely.

I never did receive a written response as the law prescribes and I chose not to pursue it further but rather place a note on the Record of Survey that I had made a formal request to acquire ROW info on the freeway but was denied. The expense at some point outweighed the benefit to the client.

We have another project also in D4 where CT acquired and staked a ROW in 2012 and the Record of Survey is still in preparation. It's been a couple of years since I asked and the surveyor in charge of that field office has been responsive and helpful and acknowledged that they need to file and are trying but don't have the budget.
He did finish the staking at least but still no Record.

I'm thinking at the 10 year mark I may try to take further action. Not holding my breath on getting anything out of them though, apparently the Official surveyors are above the law. I wonder what happens when one of us states that we don't have the budget to file a record of survey?

Mr Frame-

That is a great letter thank you for sharing it! I may try to adapt it some other counties.

[mpallamary]

Well, you can do what I always do, get an organization record (as required under law) and then file a complaint against whoever is at the top of the list. That is why the law was adopted and that is why agencies do not like it.

I recently forced CALTRANS to follow the law. See the attached.

Request a copy of their organization record from the Board.

I attached one I forced the City of San Diego to file.

The gentlemen on the list are in Responsible Charge for everything that comes out of the city.

[Edward M Reading]

Well, you can do what I always do, get an organization record (as required under law) and then file a complaint against whoever is at the top of the list. That is why the law was adopted and that is why agencies do not like it.

This is the stuff I don't like, Mike. Not all agencies don't like the NOD law. Some actually like it, ours does. I see this all the time on this board. Extremely jaded, cynical people like you painting groups and agencies as all being the same. "Government" is made up of many different agencies, made up of many different people. Lots of those people are good, hardworking, ethical people performing public service and trying to do an exceptional job for the people they serve. Try to be more careful with your broad brush approach. By the way, I agree with you that if someone at an agency is violating the law, they should have a complaint filed against them. In fact, I have threatened this against someone at another agency until they complied with the law.

[mpallamary]

Thanks Ed,

Please forgive my broad brush stroke. I appreciate your position. In my case, this has been a problem with EVERY single agency I have worked with, including two prominent state agencies that employ a bunch of surveyors. From my perspective, when it is a problem 100% per cent of the time, it is a problem.

Out of curiosity, did you read all the material?

If I may, when you file a complaint and nothing is done, what then? How do you deal with a situation where the agency clearly violates the law and no one does anything? What kind of system is that? I am sharing the tip of the iceberg here.

[mpallamary]

Here is the one I obtained from State Lands earlier this year. Why did State Lands not file this when it was required by law? I have been having problems with State Lands. As you may know, they very rarely issue proper plats. They are usually prepared by "The State Lands Commission." The surveyors rarely, if ever sign off on the work. Everything is "Preliminary." They are rarely "final." I am dealing with them on a matter wherein I need to find out who prepared a survey document as there are problems with it. They finally admitted a non-surveyor prepared it. I had to fight with them until I got the NOD. Look at the date.

If this was a private sector firm who did not file an Organization Record, they would probably spend thousands of dollars having to defend themselves for not having one on file.

I am in the middle of a battle with The City of Malibu over non-licensed people preparing and reviewing survey reports.I have attached their NOD. Look at the date. I had to fight to get them to prepare and file this.

This law is more than five years old.

[dedkad]

Thanks Ed,

Please forgive my broad brush stroke. I appreciate your position. In my case, this has been a problem with EVERY single agency I have worked with, including two prominent state agencies that employ a bunch of surveyors. From my perspective, when it is a problem 100% per cent of the time, it is a problem.

EVERY single agency? 100% of the time? Maybe it's time for some self-reflection. There are ways to get what you need and being adversarial is not the best approach. You might argue that you only become adversarial when you aren't getting a response that meets your expectations, but I've met many people who are adversarial from the get-go. Those are the people who are less inclined to get good customer service. It's human nature to want to go the extra mile for people you like. It has nothing to do with being a public or private sector employee. That little yapping chihuahua constantly nipping at your heels is going to kicked aside when the big lovable Labrador comes over for an ear scratch.

[mpallamary]

Yes Ed, every single agency. Ed, I work all over the state of California and I am referred to by local surveyors and lawyers who do not get any response from various agencies. People reach out to me all the time because they do not have the "intestinal fortitude" needed when an agency says "no."

I am a nice guy. I just don't take no for an answer when the law requires a yes.

How many agencies do you work with and how many are you working with at this time?

[mpallamary]

Ed, when you worked at MNS, Rick, and Wallace, what agencies did you deal with?

[mpallamary]

Ed, as I understand, you worked for MNS from March '15 to March '16. They are the contract land surveyors for the City of Malibu. I fought them tooth and nail to get them to file a NODD so I could find out who was in charge. it took half a year. Why is this so and why was the form not filed?

[mpallamary]

Ed, not that this matters but within the last half hour, I was contacted by an attorney from Fresno in connection with a problem in the Central Valley. He reached out to me, all the way down here in San Diego, something that happens frequently. There are a lot of good surveyors in the Fresno area.

There is a reason I was contacted to work in Fresno.

[Edward M Reading]

Mike, Glad to see that you can use Google and Linkedin! Just so you know, constantly trying to show how great you are makes you look a little desperate and sad. You might want to tone it down a bit.

[Edward M Reading]

Yes Ed, every single agency. Ed, I work all over the state of California and I am referred to by local surveyors and lawyers who do not get any response from various agencies. People reach out to me all the time because they do not have the "intestinal fortitude" needed when an agency says "no."

I am a nice guy. I just don't take no for an answer when the law requires a yes.

How many agencies do you work with and how many are you working with at this time?

Sorry Mike, you are responding to someone else, not me.

[mpallamary]

Ed, There really is no need for this to continue. Good luck with your life.

I hope you get the help you need.

[LS_8750]

Well, thanks I suppose.

I'm not interested in a PRA request. I don't expect to be in San Benito County often enough to do so. Perhaps the Central Valley Chapter should do so and add to their library San Benito County Records.

In this case, I don't mind a drive down to visit folks and see the sites. The Cienega Valley is beautiful.