City of Mountain View Benchmarks

[pls5528]

One of the engineers I work with is completing a design for a project in Mountain View and informed me that the city has mandated that we replace a "City BM" which falls into a future driveway location. The first thing I thought of is, if the city has their own department which provides the public with a reference resource for thrie vertical control system, perhaps they have a survey department. I also thought perhaps they have a numbering system for such Benchmarks and desireable material for such monuments. After numerous calls and emails, I have difficulty even fining someone who knows what a Benchmark is? Does anyone have a contact person they know which could help me out?
I guess the days of cities and counties keeping records and maintenance of benchmarks is behind us?

[mpallamary]

Because of more vertical developments, condominiums and the like, there are a number of opinions, that suggest city benchmarks are monuments because they control the location of land and land units vertically. If you think about it, it is no different than conventional land boundaries, corner monuments, and similar typical markers.

[pls5528]

Mike P.--In that context, I totally agree with you. I am not sure the municipalities have caught up with that. A good example of this is would be in the City of Citrus Heights. The city was under the Sacramento County benchmark jurisdiction before becoming incorporated (not too many years ago). Sacramento County had a BM reference system which tied the location to a Thomas Brothers page number and grid location. The benchmarks were all on the 29 system at the time. Since then, Sacramento County has updated their syestem to the 88 system, and, up to a certain point were actually running level runs internally to update their respective system. Citrus Heights has no surveying department internally, and most likely never will. All of the previous benchmarks on the county system within the city are still on the 29 system and, the locations are still on the Thomas Brothers book. If you do a project in the city, they say, we are on the old Sacramento County System. Without doing a Vertcon shift,it still is an imperfect system.

[mpallamary]

Pretty much the same in San Diego. The city is destroying benchmarks on a regular basis, as part of its capital improvements projects when they install ped ramps and curbs and gutters. Regardless of which system is used, it is very challenging when one has to recreate vertical control for older projects. Datum is one thing; destruction is another.

[mpallamary]

I'd be curious as to how many municipalities still use 29 as the standard. I mean 1988 is only 32 years ago...

[Jim Frame]

Because of more vertical developments, condominiums and the like, there are a number of opinions, that suggest city benchmarks are monuments because they control the location of land and land units vertically. If you think about it, it is no different than conventional land boundaries, corner monuments, and similar typical markers.

That interpretation notwithstanding, bench marks are subject to mandatory perpetuation under §8771(b):

When monuments exist that control the location of subdivisions, tracts, boundaries, roads, streets, or highways, or provide horizontal or vertical survey control, the monuments shall be located and referenced by or under the direction of a licensed land surveyor...

[mpallamary]

Excellent! So who is supposed to protect them? I have filed complaints against the city, with the Board, numerous times and I never even get a reply. My complaints filed with the city are tossed in the trash. Meanwhile, the vertical control network is being systematically destroyed.
Very unfortunate. I have physically, stood along city construction crews, while on the phone, watching the monuments being destroyed, right in front of me, and nothing is done.

[Paul Goebel]

We no longer need a benchmark on every block corner. I think the City of San Diego can loose a few benchmarks in the urban areas without affecting my work much.

[PLS7393]

Not sure what the problem is, as I have never had a problem calling public works and talking to a technician when I've needed something.
They have a contract surveyor, but I do not recall who it is.
If your engineer has a city request, well then there is your contact. If someone is requesting something, then they should be able to assist you.
Have you searched their website as they do have benchmarks. It's been a few years since I've done an elevation certificate, and needed to tie into their benchmarks. Don't forget to tie out the BM and file a corner record as previously mentioned.

[pls5528]

I finally got an email back from the city, along with a detailed form and sample of what they want.
Thanks to all for your comments and help!