NSPS Membership

[steffan]

Just noticed that $50 of each CLSA member’s dues is now going to NSPS as part of a 100% mandatory membership. Did not see that coming? I didn’t either since it was not on not on CLSA’s BOD agenda. Nor was it taken to the chapters for their input. At least not recently.
Some here might remember the extensive outreach CLSA did on this topic 6 or so years back to get input from its members. As a result of that outreach, it was found that 60% of CLSA members statewide were against this. Most did not like the idea of a mandatory membership. They also did not like the governance structure of NSPS, where CLSA only gets one vote even though its membership numbers are one of, if not the, largest of member states.
This new expenditure puts CLSA’s 2022 budget somewhere around $30k in the red. Of further concern, CLSA’s membership has been dropping steadily, amounting to a 20% drop over the last half-dozen years. I’m not betting that trend will change, especially if these types of un-vetted, unannounced, non-agenda surprise votes continue to be the way the CLSA Board of Directors conducts business.

[CBarrett]

What chapter do you belong to?
My chapter (OC) had many local discussions about this, starting well before COVID closures when we were meeting face to face.

[steffan]

Nothing from our director, but also nothing in the BOD agendas or minutes or NSPS reports from the last year.
Was it the OC chapter that made the motion without first putting it on the agenda? Why wasn’t this done with full statewide vetting. i.e. BOD request for input from chapters and members?

[Peter Ehlert]

Just noticed that $50 of each CLSA member’s dues is now going to NSPS as part of a 100% mandatory membership. >snip<

hmmm.
I see no mention of NSPS in my renewal email, nor can I find any mention of NSPS in the various membership application forms or on the promotional brochures.

BTW: the NSPS website still says Ca and Az are not members

I surely would have paused and considered that before I renewed.

[steffan]

Good morning Peter,

I only noticed this myself during a review of the Nov. BOD minutes, and then made some calls to get the full story. CLSA still needs to sign a MOU with NSPS, but the decision to join at 100% mandatory membership was approved at the Nov. meeting and the (now in the red) budget was amended by CLSA to reflect a $50 per member allocation. Signing the MOU is simply an administrative effort at this point. I called NSPS and confirmed the fee and 1 vote representation are non-negotiable, so don’t expect any haggling.
Although CLSA’s outgoing president makes mention of these actions in the recent CLSA magazine, there is next to no notice to the membership about this significant event anywhere else.
There appears to have been no statewide conversation on this, as it has come as a surprise to everyone I have spoken with.

[CBarrett]

Nothing from our director, but also nothing in the BOD agendas or minutes or NSPS reports from the last year.
Was it the OC chapter that made the motion without first putting it on the agenda? Why wasn’t this done with full statewide vetting. i.e. BOD request for input from chapters and members?

No, I don't believe OC chapter was a lead on this.

Three CLSA state presidents ago, when we had the presidents night meeting, and joint chapter meeting with San Diego was when I first heard of it, coming from state level, asking for chapter feedback. After that, over the next year to two there had been several chapter level discussions in general membership meetings.

I am just a general member and I didn't follow what exactly the local or state board was doing after the membership gave their input. I can just share that on a general membership level we were informed.

Keith Spencer was the incoming president at the time.

[Peter Ehlert]

thanks steffan

is there still an online repository of agendas and minutes?
I am not finding it on the new CLSA website

[steffan]

Yes, go to the member menu and the click on board of directors. You might need to get a new password because the admin changed the user/pw setup when they switched the website.

[PLS7393]

Lucky for me, I have lost the online renewal notice, lol.
Seems the current Officers and Directors are a little behind on getting members information, and one should ask why?
It appears there is a new direction being taken, which I am not in agreement with.

[Peter Ehlert]

January CLSA eNews:
"At the CLSA’s November 2021 Board of Directors meeting, the Board voted to add the expense of NSPS membership dues to the 2022 budget. Since that time, the Executive Committee has been reviewing the draft MOU received from NSPS and clarifying some of the language with NSPS. The draft MOU will be included on February 2022 Board of Directors meeting agenda and Directors will be asked to take the MOU back to their chapters to discuss it. It is expected that the Board will then take action on this item at the April 2022 Board meeting. Stay tuned for updates."

[LS_8750]

Thanks for the update.

[Peter Ehlert]

I think every Chapter Rep should thoroughly discuss this with their members before the board meeting...and vote accordingly.

A clear understanding of the implications should be known.
CLSA is not wealthy.

The budget has not been approved, yet.

[PLS7393]

Santa Clara / San Mateo Co. Chapter just met Wednesday and like so many meetings, nothing was discussed on NSPS Membership.
At least someone remembered to bring up the Mandatory Professional Statement issue. Being I haven't been active in SC/SM Co. Chapter for many years, I'm glad to see they voted unanimously against the mandatory statement. Looks like I'm back active to my original Chapter! It's nice to see more private surveyors attending meetings and is clear that the SM/SC Co. Chapter is a stronger chapter these days. I'm glad to have received the past two meeting invites, as they have real meetings with a ZOOM options for those wanting to participate from home. Good job people, and my check is in the mail (at least for the chapter for now). Mandatory NSPS membership is just like getting a shot!

[Peter Ehlert]

I was just reading the March CLSA eNews
good publication, thanks to all

I did note Warren wrote:
"Also, the proposed Memorandum of Understanding between CLSA and the National Society of Professional Surveyors (NSPS) does not envision additional raising of current CLSA dues. This has been anticipated over the past several years, and the intent is to have NSPS membership fully included in the annual dues."

the cost of additional member dues is off point. That is Our Money you are considering spending.
the pros and cons go a lot deeper than "is this going to raise my dues"

[David Kendall]

That is Our Money you are considering spending.
the pros and cons go a lot deeper than "is this going to raise my dues"

Please speak for yourself. You have a representative at the BOD meeting and you are welcome to attend if you have a strong opinion on this matter that you feel should be heard, considered and discussed.

The last meeting was on Zoom and the next will be as well. Please plan to attend the meeting on April 30, 2022.

Tuesday morning quarterbacks know no pardon

[CBarrett]

Or we can try to be constructive, and make most of it now that it is here.
Maybe it opens up new opportunities?

[steffan]

That is Our Money you are considering spending.
the pros and cons go a lot deeper than "is this going to raise my dues"

Please speak for yourself. You have a representative at the BOD meeting and you are welcome to attend if you have a strong opinion on this matter that you feel should be heard, considered and discussed.

The last meeting was on Zoom and the next will be as well. Please plan to attend the meeting on April 30, 2022.

Tuesday morning quarterbacks know no pardon

This cavalier attitude from one of the directors regarding mandating membership and associated cost to members is exactly why I am holding off on renewing membership.

[DWoolley]

This cavalier attitude from one of the directors regarding mandating membership and associated cost to members is exactly why I am holding off on renewing membership.

Wait, what?! I thought you said last Saturday you were renewing your membership.

Each chapter, through their director, will have a vote on their position with joining NSPS. The vote will be at the next meeting.

DWoolley

[David Kendall]

This cavalier attitude from one of the directors regarding mandating membership and associated cost to members is exactly why I am holding off on renewing membership.

If you have something to say then please say it. If all you have to say is that your voice is not being heard then I call that disingenuous. Hope to see you at the meeting….

[Peter Ehlert]

That is Our Money you are considering spending.
the pros and cons go a lot deeper than "is this going to raise my dues"

Please speak for yourself. You have a representative at the BOD meeting and you are welcome to attend if you have a strong opinion on this matter that you feel should be heard, considered and discussed.

The last meeting was on Zoom and the next will be as well. Please plan to attend the meeting on April 30, 2022.

Tuesday morning quarterbacks know no pardon

David: the last "virtual" OC Chapter meeting was on December 16th.
No agenda was issued with the meeting announcement, it only noted that Warren Smith would be the guest speaker.
Due to my personal obligations I was able to "attend" only part of it.
No minutes of that meeting were issued. I have no idea if NSPS was discussed.

in theory there are 4 quarterly OC Chapter meetings, I do not know if one will be held before the next BOD meeting.

Please provide the agenda and information needed to attend the April 30 meeting.

[DWoolley]

David [Kendall]: the last "virtual" OC Chapter meeting was on December 16th.
...
I have no idea if NSPS was discussed.
...
Please provide the agenda and information needed to attend the April 30 meeting.

Peter:

As a valued member of the OC Chapter, I have asked the Chapter President and/or the Director Whip to reach out to you in the next two days.

Also, we normally take votes at chapter meetings. I have asked the Executive Committee to consider sending out a poll for the members. I do not have control of whether they choose to poll members or take a vote at the next meeting.

Thank you for speaking up. I appreciate it.

Sincerely,

David Woolley

[Patrick Tami]

Jeff,

Read your posts and appreciate you and others trying to get information on this major action by the CLSA Board of Directors (BoD) and Executive Committee (EC). We should also trust the BoD and EC are doing their due diligence on this topic especially when it may reverse a previous action by the board.

Not every detail of what happens during a BoD or EC meeting needs to be presented to Chapter Membership, we need to trust our leadership. All topics should be noticed and Leadership should be ready to give details when asked by membership and questions should be addressed to a sufficient level of understanding. That is why your questions are very appropriate.

As a past president of CLSA, it is my personal opinion, that I should stay out of the way trying to run the organization, except when historical information or past actions may help in making current decisions. That is why I endeavor to read each CLSA BoD agenda and minutes and also why I am now posting.

In about 2014 an ad hoc committee on joining NSPS was crated. The 2015 report from that committee was presented to the BoD which resulted in a vote not to join NSPS.

If I were a BoD member, I would want to know at least the following before presenting this to my Chapter members or voting on the motion:
The specific concerns from the 2015 report have been satisfied with the new agreement or the situation has changed.
How does the agreement allow for CLSA to withdraw from the agreement?
The least a few years of NSPS actions are acceptable. Would CLSA vote differently on any of the actions taken by NSPS?
NSPS is and has been financially solid and what CLSA’s responsibility would be if NSPS was not financially solid in the future.
The BoD and EC think joining NSPS will motivate more people to join CLSA, or is there an acceptable drop in membership.

Pat

[David Kendall]

David: the last "virtual" OC Chapter meeting was on December 16th.
No agenda was issued with the meeting announcement, it only noted that Warren Smith would be the guest speaker.
Due to my personal obligations I was able to "attend" only part of it.
No minutes of that meeting were issued. I have no idea if NSPS was discussed.

in theory there are 4 quarterly OC Chapter meetings, I do not know if one will be held before the next BOD meeting.

Please provide the agenda and information needed to attend the April 30 meeting.

I apologize for the confusion. I have no affiliation with the OC chapter. I was speaking of the BOD meeting where I represent Marin Chapter. The last meeting was on Saturday Feb 5. There was a representative (president) of NSPS there to present and field questions. The discussion went on for an hour and I asked specific questions regarding Jeff Steffan's stated fears of under-representation on the NSPS Board so that I could better understand the situation.

Personally I am neutral in my opinion of this idea of CLSA joining NSPS. It might be a good idea? I don't recall anyone from any chapter (including Cascade) speaking against the initiative to join NSPS. The good news is the CA agreement with NSPS is renewable each year so if we decide next year that it was a mistake then we can bail.

I do not feel that it is the doomsday scenario that Steffan is making it out to be. If he won't show up to discuss and is just going to pop up on the forum once every three months to complain and threaten to withhold his dues then I suppose there's nothing to be done for him anyway.....

The next BOD meeting is on Saturday April 30, 2022. Login information and agenda is not available yet. If you put that date on your calendar and send an email request to clsa@californiasurveyors.org a week or so prior to the meeting I'm sure they will let you know how to get in and state your peace

Feb 5 Agenda:

http://www.camsdev.net/CLSA/Downloads/C ... 5_2022.pdf


Feb 5 Minutes:

CLSA Board of Directors Meeting Minutes - February 5 2022 DRAFT.pdf

NSPS Information provided by their president:

NSPS Member Benefits Flyer.pdf

NSPS Objectives.pdf

[hellsangle]

I was leaning towards what Nevada does (100% membership) . . . until someone, highly respected(!!!) and in the "know" wrote a sad letter about NSPS voting rights. (See The Nevada Traverse)

Now I'm against it unless the votes of the "membership" count.

Stay safe and have a nice hump-day.

Crazy Phil

[CBarrett]

This is not a new issue that someone is trying to sneak past people unnoticed.

OC Chapter has monthly meetings (somewhat irregular during covid, unfortunately). NSPS membership has been discussed on chapter level on and off since at least 2019, while Anette was still the state president. (I attended most meetings since my renewed interest in late 2018).

I am not familiar with how local or state board of directors handled the issue, but from the sentiment in the meetings, it appears that most of the membership is in favor of joining NSPS. I remember at least two meetings where the membership was asked for 'a raise of hands'. One of them was a joint chapter with San Diego where we got to meet Keith Spencer as a new state president at the time. "In favor" hands number was overwhelmingly high, it appeared to be approximately 75:25 when you scan around the room (I was not counting individual votes). It was I believe one of the topics Keith wanted to discuss with membership as incoming president.

In addition to arguments against the membership which claim that dollar influx to NSPS will not be commensurate to the level of representation, there is also a significant segment of CLSA membership interested in participating at NSPS level.