Professional Status

[mpallamary]

Attaining Professional Stature.

Professional stature cannot be attained by self-proclamation. The lazy say, “give me the prize without the training, the wages without work, the reward without the quest, heaven without probation, a profession’s prestige without a profession’s skill.” If the land surveyor is to have professional standing, that standing must be earned and bestowed upon him by others.

You and I know and believe that land surveying is a profession. But whether it is a profession or not is not our privilege to proclaim; others are the judges. The opinion of learned men and the opinion of the public is the proof.

Fortunately for the world, professional stature is something that must be earned, not merely claimed. If it were otherwise, everyone would soon lay claim to a higher standing, whether qualified or not. Many do attempt to filch good names. The A.F.L. engine operator (dozer operators and the like) inflate their egos by calling themselves “operating engineers.” This, of course, proves to them that they are engineers; hence, it is their right to organize all surveyors as a part of the operating engineers union. The boy who carries the stake bag, coats, lunches, and water is certain of his important position in society if he is called an engineering aid rather than a flunky 3rd grade. Mere claiming a good name is not proof that a person has the right to the name. A person’s actions, behavior, and conduct are far more potent proof.

The proof of what we are is not what we claim to be. The proof is what others know us to be. We might well ask ourselves, what, on the average, do others think of us?

The professions that you and I and everyone recognize and acclaim as professions, i.e., the doctors, attorneys, and clergy, need not use the title professional doctor, professional attorney, or professional clergy; everyone considers them professional. The title was bestowed upon them because their ethics, behavior, and standing in community. If the land surveyors wish to acquire and maintain a professional reputation, they must earn that right by the average standing, of the majority of all land surveyors.

- Curt Brown, 1961

[mpallamary]

We should focus more on class and character instead of lights and lasers.

[mpallamary]

Curt's final resting place in Julian.

[CBarrett]

So true!
I find myself feeling grateful that I was raised by a family full of professionals, and those kinds of attitudes were instilled early, and became normal behaviors for me.
The flip side of it is that, too often it makes me too intolerant of those who don't exhibit the same. I have to remind myself frequently that many did not have the same learning opportunities.

At the risk of being a little bit of a "mee too"... on the other hand we are talking about professionalism, my grandpa (the surveyor one) co wrote, or maybe better word would be collaborated on this book. "Practical Geodesy", it is mostly a textbook about plane surveying, with some spherical geodesy as well.
This is one of the books we used as textbooks 'back home'. I was a little bit of a novelty back there, being the author's granddaughter.
Maybe that's why I always tend to push and pull forward, I have big shoes to fill (and at the risk of sounding overconfident, I don't feel unequal to it, eventually.)

Practical Geodesy.JPG

[pls5528]

Well, Habving gone through the LOcal 12 Operating Engineers "Apprenticeship Program" in the 1970's, I can say this: Was it of value to me? Yes, in regards to the education (at Santa Ana JC). Was it the best choice for my profession? (NO). The Union seems to resist the true professionalism of the "Science" or surveying by keeping it in a "TRADE". The system does not allow a way to accommodate office vs. field experience and prioritize field over all. When I went through the program, it was tied ti to an ABET college program, which I had received my 2nd degree (an AS in Land Surveying). I am very proud of that and it helped me achieve passing the LS exam. I, however, did not like the tie in to the machine operating engineers as a piggy-back syestem, and do not see the relationship at all. I understood at that time that the surveyors were on a similar tie-in in Illinois with "The Plumbers Union"? Surveying is a science, and as such, does not belong to a union. I believe that they deserve a just wage and benefits for what they do, but draw the line there.

[Ian Wilson]

The one thing I took away from my meetings with Curt Brown and the conversations I had and listened in on was the thought process and logic that went into resolving boundaries.

It wasn't the math (although he was a brilliant survey math teacher) that floated his boat. It was the thinking and the way of connecting field evidence with the written evidence to come up with the location of the boundary that harmonized the documentation with the physical "stuff" on the ground.

It wasn't that he was trying to prove the esoteric based on his superior intellect. He was trying to make all the elements fit to the benefit of the land owners; both his client and the adjoiners.

And...both Mikes...I don't ever recall him saying anything about unions...one way or the other.

And, Connie...I think yo may need to have your Grandad's shoes stretched out a bit.

[TTaylor]

As the saying goes, "Professionalism is not the job you do, it's how you do the job."

This is true whether your work is in plain sight (visible) or behind the scenes with no one knowing that you are holding yourself to high professional and ethical standards.

If most of a group don't know what it means by professionalism then their collective opinion on someone else's professionalism doesn't mean much.

The learned men recognize professionalism regardless of what the job is and the public recognize by how someone conducts themselves in all situations.

If you have to tell someone you are a professional then you have lost and that is a good indicator that you are not.

Defining being a professional is not a list of activities that are protected and can only be done by someone who is licensed under a "Practice Act". That may be one aspect of a good definition. There are many other aspects that should be clearly stated and understood.

*beating old drum* I would like to see an updated and comprehensive "Code of Conduct" that includes a complete discussion of ethics.

[mpallamary]

Yes Tom. Agreed.

[CBarrett]

*beating old drum* I would like to see an updated and comprehensive "Code of Conduct" that includes a complete discussion of ethics.

Why does this idea tend to die a slow painful death? Seems like we have a number of people interested in it?
If CLSA doesn't do it, why won't the interested parties take the bull by the horns and turn it into a roadshow? Right now with internet communications being so convenient it is not that hard to get the word out.

I know it is a pretty dry topic, so we just need to find a way to present it in a more interesting manner.

Yes, I know there is a general sense of apathy within CLSA ranks, and getting CLSA to do this is near impossible.... so forget trying to wag the dog, I think interested parties should come together adjust do it. CLSA or NSPS or whomever gets interested can join in later.
Right now there is a a number, still relatively small number, of surveyors who have much greater business community reach than CLSA, simply because they took advantage of the newer media.

I started that silly seminar on drafting (because noone else was doing it), I only finished the first chapter, and I am already getting invites to present it.
Let's just do it.

[LS_8750]

I attended a presentation a couple nights ago. The presenter was an attorney and mediation and arbitration specialist. He provided insight on how he views the credibility of experts based on cues derived from demeanor, mannerisms, appearance, presence, tone of voice, courteousness. What struck me is here is a person that is going to make million dollar judgements based not entirely upon what an expert is saying, but in how that expert is saying it as well.

I've heard this all before, but this time it resonated with me.

[DWoolley]

PLS_8750:

The blindfold on Lady Justice is idealistic. Interesting to encounter someone that has the experience and honesty to admit that which is true of human nature. Personally, even after having witnessed the failures, I believe the system works correctly most of the time.

I appreciate the meaningful contribution.

DWoolley

[CBarrett]

Nod nod!
We are nowhere near as evolved and egalitarian as out ideals are. If we were, ideals would be on a whole different level.

A large number of people don't bother with ideals, then add to that pile those who do but are early in their learning and development, so they err more often than not.
Even when you put a lot if effort into exemplary thoughts, appearances and behaviors, it is extremely difficult to balance competing interests, in addition to limited amounts of energy and time people have.

When you put all of that I to a single pot and stir. You get the 'normal'. Normal and perfect, normal and appropriate are not synonymous.
It is normal for people to try and be appropriate a good number of time, and not cut it a significant number if times. I would venture a guess this significant number of times can be 50%.

The rest are instinctual quick judgements, gut feelings... instincts that allowed us to survive in a moving world. Thete is a lot more to human behaviors than what happens in our frontal cortexes.

[CBarrett]

Here is a little bit more reading on one of the psychological phenomenon called the FUNDAMENTAL ATTRIBUTION ERROR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundament ... tion_error

Part of the reason we call it FUNDAMENTAL is because it is so common, most people use it, so to speak, all the time.

[PLS7393]

I still like my definition of a "Professional Land Surveyor".
I know many good individuals who call themselves a Land Surveyor and I have no issues with that, as it is their choice.
In my book, a Professional Land Surveyor is one who goes over and above the standard. One who does something for the profession!
What that entails is not for me to decide, but belonging to CLSA is one avenue to interact with other surveyors to better our profession.
I am proud to call myself a Professional Land Surveyor.

[Warren Smith]

Although my certificate was issued stating that I was duly licensed as a Land Surveyor, I now proudly title myself as a Professional Land Surveyor. It truly is a profession – marked by, not just the technical services we provide, but the continuing education and equal footing we inhabit when dealing with Professional Engineers, Architects, Attorneys, and others.
Another indication of professionalism is the use of independent and objective analysis we undertake when determining the limits of land ownership. While we are certainly characterized as expert measurers, it is in the realm of research that elevates our work product. To trace a chain of title back to the creation of a given parcel of land involves a technique similar to completing a jigsaw puzzle. Each parcel has a spatial relationship to its adjoiners. There are often ambiguous descriptions, so that alternate solutions need to be examined, and a ‘best fit’ worked out.
This is among the services we provide, and involves a lifetime of learning.
Another is becoming active in an association which, dear readers, you have done. Thank you!

[mpallamary]

Well said Warren.