Post 82 Blues

[Ric7308]

Good morning - Currently there are 660 individuals which hold both an active CE license and an active PLS license. This is similar number to when I last looked 4-5 years ago.

[DWoolley]

Good morning - Currently there are 660 individuals which hold both an active CE license and an active PLS license. This is similar number to when I last looked 4-5 years ago.

Thank you for the information. My guesstimate was off by 450 licensees, good grief. Dual licensees make up approximately 15% (I estimated 5%) of the PLSs. That number fits with Warren's County Surveyor dual licensees being 22%.

Thank you for the detailed information Ric7308 from 7304.

DWoolley

[CBarrett]

Having an extraordinary mentor is amazing, and somewhat rare. I had a privilege to work for Van Sickle for several years back in the 90's. Super intelligent and very much a gentleman. I was so sad when that office closed and he moved back to Denver.

[Edward M Reading]

Good morning - Currently there are 660 individuals which hold both an active CE license and an active PLS license. This is similar number to when I last looked 4-5 years ago.

Thanks, Ric. That matches my experience here in SLO. We have a fair number of dual licensees and most are very good surveyors too.

[LS_8750]

659 individuals are likewise privy to the best kept secret in civil engineering, that dual license. I find this encouraging.

It was asked how I was able to sit for the PLS exam having not worked under the direct supervision of a PLS. Fair question.

My answer is dumb luck and hard work (I don't believe in luck). My cousin's fiance was a party chief in a local shop, we were friends and I befriended the old LS owner of the shop. My next door neighbor was an old pre-82 RCE, we became friends. I went looking for a room to rent in a house, it was a college party house, a mess, and the owner turned out to be an old LS, and we became friends. I met with each of these gents periodically, sometimes weekly, sometimes monthly and they became mentors. They loaned me their books, alerted me to case law, taught me field tricks in their garages. I ended up doing 1099 work for them as they wrapped up old projects and closed up shop. (I had my own gear). They gave me buckets of old tools. They told me stories about the old timers before them, who mentored them and how, who of their elders were respected and why. This went on for six years. Finally, I asked them for a reference to sit for the exam. ........... The Board raised an eyebrow, said they wanted a fourth reference. ..... I checked in with an old PLS who considered hiring me following a job interview a few years prior, I declined the job. He agreed to sit down with me and go over my qualifications, my experience, etc. This fourth referenced vouched and I sat for the exam. My mentors were early 4000 and 3000 PLS numbers with exception of one old RCE who had been surveying since his days in the army during the Vietnam War. I needed two years experience following my PE; I had at least six.

And some of my greatest teachers were folks that worked their asses off in the field day in and day out and never got licensed.

When I showed John Pavlik how I solved one of his strange construction staking problems that befuddled the class, he just looked at me and shook his head saying under his breath, "engineer."........ I took that as a compliment.

[JoeC]

Well I find it kinda ironic..
Here we are talking about how can we get engineers to perform more surveys.. but we aren’t talking about how can we get more surveyors to do more engineering (design) work. I think most surveyor can do simple engineering design.. for example.. grading plans, public works project - such as sidewalks, driveways, water, sewer, and storm drain plans. How many of you check engineering plans and ask yourself.. “who designed this?” most surveyors know how to design.. let's create a path for surveyors to perform simple design functions.. engineers can do just about anything a surveyor can, but surveyors can't do any design work… let make surveyors more valuable and allow the survey profession to expand their scope.

We need to start talking about how can we get surveyors to do some design work and stop talking about how can we get engineers to do more survey work.

[LS_8750]

I do not disagree with JoeC, except that if the trend is leading away from land surveyors doing the bulk of construction surveying, then how will they get the experience to do design?

[CBarrett]

I do not disagree with JoeC, except that if the trend is leading away from land surveyors doing the bulk of construction surveying, then how will they get the experience to do design?

By working as office engineering technicians in civil/survey companies. Very few engineers have done construction staking, but yet they learn how to do engineering design. I'm sure other people can learn the same way.

Some elements of engineering design are also covered in many surveying curriculums, especially when it comes to grading, roads and drainage.
Some states allow surveyors to do certain grading and drainage. I have not taken the time to investigate in depth exactly where they drew the dividing line, or how much overlap exists, so I can't get into details.