Automatic Record of Survey Trigger - Unmapped Parcels

[Warren Smith]

Hmm, and civil engineers were required to become registered after Mulholland's St. Francis Dam failure ...

[Scott]

At least 385 deaths and probably more like 500.
Hollywood Reservoir dam built the same by Mulholland and has never been filled to capacity because of the St. Francis Dam failure.
They planted a bunch trees to block the view of it from LA.

A buddy of mine's grandfather (RCE 405) was called in to consult after St. Francis.

[DWoolley]

Hmm, and civil engineers were required to become registered after Mulholland's St. Francis Dam failure ...

Kill 400-500 people in one shot, they had do something, right? One division of DPW, biggest engineering failure of the day, it stands to reason.

One bad engineering accident/failure, I do not see any correlation to documented widespread fraudulent practice/incompetency of land surveying, then or now.

DWoolley

[LS_8750]

I've been working the bullseye zone for a while. That parallel thread about the judge and the Board and negligence struck me as odd, only because I encounter that sort of work product routinely and was surprised to see that matter rise to a board complaint. The Hard Rain fell on me long ago, I've seen a few things by now.

Benson belonged in Congress. Benson was just a venture capitalist tool.
I came across a Benson area a while back in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
Nobody had the money to pay for the survey.

I was down in the Tenderloin a couple years ago in San Francisco working from the old Block Diagrams that were generated following re-surveys of the City after the 1906 earthquake. The old 7 story hotel I was working on was built in 1908 and the Block Diagram was generated in 1909. We found chiseled crosses and the like on the old granite curbs, we found chiseled notches on buildings in the exact locations described. We had recent record of survey maps declaring "SFNF" at nearly all of the locations of the old chisel marks we were finding. The Looney Tunes eyeballs kicked in like a bad case of poison oak. The record of survey maps were trash.

I find in my own experience the older land surveyors did better work than those of more recent times, whether they filed maps or not.

[Mike Mueller]

Our collectively response, if we are to believe this forum is representative of the collective, which may not be the case, we have chosen to "... live offa the fatta the lan’, George” by performing and/or accepting the soft grift in the industry. Any effort at reformation is quickly rejected.

I would not characterize the collective response that way. I see it more in line with why I object to raises in minimum wage. The actual reality created by changes in the laws would not accomplish what the original law was proposed to accomplish. Minimum wage makes robots happy, menu's shorter, bathrooms dirtier, parks closed etc. It does not lead to a "living wage" for anyone since it makes everything else cost more. Pushes for monumentation and other recently proposed changes are attempting to fix problems in our profession caused by people who are ignoring the laws already in the profession.

The "Benson Bullseye" theory keeps losing its tested hypotheses, IE maps in gold country, origin of surveyors who didn't like recording (Richard Hogan), morals of those who didn't record (Abbott), testimony of the CS of San Francisco at the time of the alleged start that you posted. So far your theory has not accurately predicted any of those outcomes. Several counter theories have been proposed, that all seem more plausible and less apocryphal. IE business drives most folks, or non filing was not an issue since everyone knew each other locally. As noted above, Benson was really just a morally bankrupt businessman, and a truly ambitious "lakefront lot" salesmen. The surveying was the means, not the method.

The only reason I keep pushing back on this theory is that I do not think it is constructive to operate with a bad model. It leads to bad plans, and actions that do not result in the intended outcomes.

As always, I do love the opportunity to hear new ideas and test them with evidence :)
/sips some tea
/rocks chair

Mikey Mueller, PLS 9076
Sonoma County

[DWoolley]

Apparently, some practices are not exclusive to 1890 California:

Hot off the presses.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edmi/pr/fo ... me-defraud

Or maybe, these are well intentioned fellas that didn't want to be inconvenienced with filing maps, setting monuments and such.

DWoolley

[LS9200]

Shame about SSI, that was a premier surveying and engineering company out of Michigan. 45 years for what appears to be lying about being a disadvantaged business is daunting.

[DWoolley]

I have more written testimony dating back to 1890. It is clear the 1900's land surveyor/surveying was documented to be sketchy and unlawful, hence the licensure. The land surveying practice history of each county jurisdiction is documented and continues to be documented - for better or worse, the story is in the records (or lack thereof). The remaining question is simply, is the documented fraudulent 1900s surveys/surveyors correlated to the current/subsequent practices beyond the commonality in the geography? Coincidence? Possibly. Being an apprenticed/mentored profession, there is, without question, a documented bloodline for each of us. Ultimately, the answer to the questions is of no consequence and little more than a forum parlor game to pass the time.

Anyone familiar with Russian fables, collectively, we are the scorpion, "it is in our nature".

To Nate's point, it is daunting to realize anyone can find themselves in a slow and imperceptible situation with the bad seed in our circulation. Vigilance is not always enough for reputable land surveyors. Be careful who you invite into your house of survey - the 13:1 and the self reported criminal backgrounds is telling, pay heed or pay the price [queue Barretta theme song].

DWoolley

[DWoolley]

I was writing a script for a new episode of the 10 Minute Surveyor over the weekend. There is some rich history related to land surveying. I was researching "headrights" which was the Republic of Texas' 1836-1840 version of the Homestead Act. This lead me to the office of the California Surveyor General established by the California State Constitution in 1850. The resume's of the first Surveyors General were impressive until 1871 to 1875:

"Robert Gardner, perhaps the most controversial of all the Surveyors General of California, was born March 17, 1841, in Fall River, Massachusetts. Following his arrival in San Francisco in 1858, he settled in Knight’s Landing, where he maintained his permanent residence until his election to the Surveyor Generalship in 1872.

Gardner’s background and education are unknown. Whatever his background, however, it is practically certain that Gardner, unlike any of his predecessors, had little – if any – knowledge of or experience in the fields of surveying or civil engineering.

In December 1876, following more careful auditing of those records of Gardner’s office which could be located, the Attorney General of California brought suit against Gardner on behalf of the State for recovery of $42,215 in missing fees.

Following his term of office, Gardner and his family moved to Oakland, where he lived for the remainder of his life. During these years Gardner worked in the field of real estate and may have practiced land law before the Department of the Interior. Despite the adverse notoriety he suffered following his term of office as Surveyor-General, Gardner maintained some political ambition. It is interesting to note that he again ran for Surveyor General in 1886, but lost to Theodore Reichert. Gardner died in Oakland on April 22, 1907."

The misappropriated $42,215 in 1876 would be $1.25M today.

I believe the Surveyors General and the GLO were the basis for providing honest and the proper technical practices of the day. This was not necessarily true in 1871 to 1875. How many surveyors could there have been in 1875 California? Benson may have had a mentor.

https://www.slc.ca.gov/publications-2/r ... s-general/

I found it interesting there were County Surveyors before there was a license requirement. Another interesting fact, there were California Surveyors General and there were federal Surveyors General that were assigned to a state.

DWoolley

[Warren Smith]

County Surveyors were (and are) officers of their Counties. Prior to 1955, it was an elective office. Prior to 1982, it was as much a County Engineer position as it was mapping.

The State Surveyor General's office surveyed and issued patents to Swamp and Overflowed lands, which were exempt from the public land survey system. In many cases in the Delta region, state approved plats were completed prior to the federal subdivision of townships. This led to closing corners into the prior surveys, much like into a Rancho line. The office evolved into the State Lands Commission.

[DWoolley]

...
Another interesting fact, there were California Surveyors General and there were federal Surveyors General that were assigned to a state.
...
DWoolley

10 Minute Surveyor spoiler alert, the federal Surveyor General assigned to California was an uncommonly rugged person that was a land surveyor and more exceptionally, gifted in the skill of fighting and killing other men.

DWoolley

[DWoolley]

The longest serving Surveyor General was William S. Kingsbury. He served from 1906 until the office was abolished in 1929. Kingsbury remained as the Chief of the Bureau of State Lands until 1934. Seems somewhat remarkable to have been elected to office for 11 consecutive terms. At first blush, it seems like a win for the +1 crowd until... [pause for an uncomfortable silence] we find out something was clearly amiss in his manner of bathtub death.

"On February 20, 1943, Kingsbury drowned in his bathtub. Because of the unknown cause of death, an autopsy was performed. This circumstance apparently muzzled all publication of his death, for no obituary or other notice has been located in any newspaper in the State, despite Kingsbury’s many years of political and social prominence."

As was the custom of the day, scandals thought to be embarrassing or shameful or that may reflect poorly on the family or society were quietly swept under the rug. All that remained were the contemporary tragic whispers in quiet corners among polite company. There were no final monuments, coordinates, or plaques dedicated to a pilar of the land surveying community? That cannot be a good sign.

Now readers, you tell me, what really happened in the land surveyor's bathtub that may have been so severe as to cause folks to quietly close the door on Kingsbury? Ever so Shakespearian.

DWoolley

[Ric7308]

Now readers, you tell me, what really happened in the land surveyor's bathtub that may have been so severe as to cause folks to quietly close the door on Kingsbury? Ever so Shakespearian.

DWoolley

Maybe it's because California doesn't authorize licensed surveyors to perform incidental drainage studies like some other states do. (sorry, couldn't help it)

[William Magee]

Now readers, you tell me, what really happened in the land surveyor's bathtub that may have been so severe as to cause folks to quietly close the door on Kingsbury? Ever so Shakespearian.

DWoolley

The fool thinks himself to be wise, while a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
Shakespeare