Monument Preservation

[Jedwards]

Hello,

I’m researching monument preservation for an upcoming road project and looking to suggest updates to our contract and project plan language before the project goes out to bid that ensures compliance with 8771.6, as well as effective procedures used in the community to protect monuments during roadwork.

I'm reviewing the available resources in the CLSA document library, any suggestions or other examples I could reference?

Thanks,

[Dave Lindell]

Demand pre-construction ties on Corner Record forms filed with the County Surveyor and post-construction replacement notes also on Corner
Record forms. There should be some kind of proof that all points of record are properly tied out and replaced. Payment per point would help insure that all and every point is taken care of.

[Mike Mueller]

If it is specifically for 8771.6 it might be a little tough to give specific directions as the requirements of 8771.6 are based on the monuments being used as "control". Most of the monument perpetuation as outlined in 8771 is directed at saving ALL survey monuments that might be destroyed, even if they are irrelevant to the survey at hand.

If you are in control from the government side, preparing a contract/workflow that will be executed by whoever wins the bid, I would recommend focusing on the 8771 mon perpetuation aspects, since if that is done correctly, then it will likely cover the new regs in 8771.6.

For a monument to be required to be replaced by 8771.6, that was not covered by the pre/post corner records or RoS process, it would have to be something like this:

1) A rotting wooden hub that controlled a Point of Intersection for a road centerline that was far enough outside the road that it wasn't destroyed by the rebuilding efforts.
2) A completely rusted out pipe that crumbles when its measured that is held as control for a road or other boundary that is past the area of work.

One item/process that I would suggest putting into these sorts of contracts is to require that all the monuments be shown on the topo maps passed to the design folks, AND require that the surveyors preparing the maps include an additional generic symbol on a separate layer in CAD on top of all the monuments that need to be preserved/replaced. Then have the design folks be required to show that layer and place that symbol in their legend with something that reads like this:

"Survey monument- before issuance of a certificate of completion for the project this monument must be re-installed if destroyed as outlined in 8771(c)"

The idea behind that is if we can get the various inspectors to start looking for the replacement monuments, it gets someone involved who will always be included in the process who has actual power over the contractors. I suggest a single symbol type, since I think it will get too confusing otherwise. A single symbol lets the design folks easily pass the buck while not adding confusion to their plans.

If you have some language that you think is working already for 8771 could you share it with me?

Mikey Mueller, PLS 9076
Sonoma County

[Jedwards]

Thanks Mike & Dave,

It's always a good time to update language and processes to strengthen monument preservation, so I appreciate the suggestions. I agree that adding a process steps requiring proof that any monuments potentially disturbed within the project bounds are properly protected by the end of the project would be beneficial. Also like the suggestion to mark plan sheets with the monument preservation notes.

Currently we have the following as a General Note on Plan Sheets:

"THE CONTRACTOR SHALL, AT CONTRACTOR’S EXPENSE, BE RESPONSIBLE TO LOCATE AND PROTECT ALL SURVEY CONTROL MONUMENTS, WHETHER
SHOWN ON THESE PLANS OR NOT, WITHIN THE PROJECT AREA, ALL SURVEY MONUMENTS, WHETHER FOR HORIZONTAL OR VERTICAL CONTROL THAT
WILL BE DISTURBED OR REMOVED BY THE CONTRACTOR, OR HIS EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, SUBCONTRACTORS, CONSULTANT OR LICENSEES, SHALL BE
RELOCATED OR RESET, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CALIFORNIA BUSINESS & PROFESSIONS CODE SECTION 8771 UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF A
LICENSED LAND SURVEYOR OR REGISTERED ENGINEER AUTHORIZED TO PRACTICE LAND SURVEYING IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. IN ADDITION, A
RECORD OF SURVEY OR CORNER RECORD, AS APPLICABLE, SHALL BE FILED AND/OR RECORDED, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF SAID
CODE."


And this note in contract special provisions:

"78-2 SURVEY MONUMENTS
78-2.01 GENERAL

The Agency shall show, to the best of its knowledge, the location and character of survey monuments on the
construction plans located within the construction area.

The Contractor is responsible for protecting and perpetuating survey monuments affected by construction
activities in accordance with the Professional Land Surveyor’s Act. It is the Contractor’s responsibility to arrange
and pay for a diligent and thorough search for survey monuments.

Section 78-2 includes specifications for constructing cast-in-place concrete survey monuments, Adjust
Survey Monument to Grade, and Set or Reset Monument. The Contractor shall be responsible for the placement
of the Survey Monument Well as shown on Yuba County Standard Plan 500. Yuba County will furnish to the
Contractor the survey marker disks to be placed in wells.

Set or Reset Monument
At locations shown on the plans the Contractor is to set or reset a monument. This work is to be performed by
a licensed surveyor. The monument shall be set or reset in accordance with the Professional Land Surveyors’ Act.
File a corner record when required by the Professional Land Surveyors' Act.

Monument to be Preserved
At these locations noted on the plans tie out the monument and place lath and flagging around the monument.
Provide a copy of the reference notes to the Engineer. Do this before clearing and grubbing is performed. Protect
the monument from damage. Any of these monuments that are destroyed by the Contractor’s operations shall be
replaced at no cost to the County.

Adjust Monument to Grade
At these locations adjust survey monument to grade. Adjust in accordance with Yuba County Standard Plan
500. "

I believe the language is fairly standard, but if you see any ways to strengthen it, I’d be happy to hear your suggestions.

[Ric7308]

Just want to remind everyone that a contractor is prohibited from including any monument preservation or land surveying tasks in with a bid, proposal, quote, or contract for contracting purposes.

There was a previous section in the PLS Act (and PE Act) which allowed a licensed contractor to contract with a licensed land surveyor for...This section was repealed several years ago (PE Act also) by the Legislature due to misinterpretation of that section by local public agencies and abuse by licensed contractors for getting around the requirements for a licensed land surveyor.

As I told a group of representatives from public agencies in Ventura County, licensed contractors (or anyone for that matter) can bid to raise a monument well to the surface. But they cannot bid for any services related to the actual monuments or control points.

[Jim Frame]

As I told a group of representatives from public agencies in Ventura County, licensed contractors (or anyone for that matter) can bid to raise a monument well to the surface. But they cannot bid for any services related to the actual monuments or control points.

The way I've always done it is to have the contractor install the well and monument, then when they're done I return and punch the point location from the straddlers or other reference marks. Depending on one's definition of "actual monuments" this could be problematic from Ric's perspective, but construction of the monument (around here mostly a capped iron pipe or brass disk in concrete inside a well) is a contractor's job, if you ask me. The surveyor is only responsible for marking the referenced point (typically a punch mark or cross) and verifying an overall workmanlike installation.

[Ric7308]

Understandable Jim. However, "...always done it..." needs to adjust as laws change.

[DWoolley]

Just want to remind everyone that a contractor is prohibited from including any monument preservation or land surveying tasks in with a bid, proposal, quote, or contract for contracting purposes.

There was a previous section in the PLS Act (and PE Act) which allowed a licensed contractor to contract with a licensed land surveyor for...This section was repealed several years ago (PE Act also) by the Legislature due to misinterpretation of that section by local public agencies and abuse by licensed contractors for getting around the requirements for a licensed land surveyor.

As I told a group of representatives from public agencies in Ventura County, licensed contractors (or anyone for that matter) can bid to raise a monument well to the surface. But they cannot bid for any services related to the actual monuments or control points.

Ric:

My understanding is the same, but rather than have me write it and you counter it, I think it would be helpful if you offered the citations and scenario.

Rather than pawn off the work onto you, I will provide the setup:

Our Town, California is paving Main Street. Main Street is being converted to a smart street with plans and profiles. The design includes rights of way and state plane coordinates.

1. Does a land surveyor have to sign the construction plans? If so, why? Citation, please. In my City Surveyor jurisdiction, I sign construction plans, same is true for the County of LA.

2. The City Engineer includes the land surveying in the construction specifications. The specifications states the contractor is responsible for the construction staking and monument preservation. The contractor hires a licensed land surveyor. Any issues?

3. Contractor realizes his project manager knows CAD and decides to stake several of the improvements without the land surveyor. Any issues? The plans are on state plane coordinates, any issues? Any different answer on local coordinates?

4. Contractor works with the surveyor on the regular, he budgets $1000 per monument, only counting the 10 intersections. There exists several PIs and tract boundaries monuments not in the count for a total of 15 monuments. The contractor says "pick which 10 you want to preserve". Who is responsible? The contractor, city or private surveyor for the other five monuments?

5. Are existing monuments required to be shown on construction plans?

6. The construction is calendared for 120 days. The County is 180 days to review corner records. Does the land surveyor still file pre and post construction corner records?

7. The right of way for portions of Main Street have not been shown on a subdivision map, record of survey or official map. Is a record of survey required? Again, is a land surveyor required to sign the construction plans?

I understand that "it depends" is the starting point of the conversation and nuances alter the answers.

Thank you for any guidance.

DWoolley

[Ric7308]

Just want to remind everyone that a contractor is prohibited from including any monument preservation or land surveying tasks in with a bid, proposal, quote, or contract for contracting purposes.

There was a previous section in the PLS Act (and PE Act) which allowed a licensed contractor to contract with a licensed land surveyor for...This section was repealed several years ago (PE Act also) by the Legislature due to misinterpretation of that section by local public agencies and abuse by licensed contractors for getting around the requirements for a licensed land surveyor.

As I told a group of representatives from public agencies in Ventura County, licensed contractors (or anyone for that matter) can bid to raise a monument well to the surface. But they cannot bid for any services related to the actual monuments or control points.

Ric:

My understanding is the same, but rather than have me write it and you counter it, I think it would be helpful if you offered the citations and scenario.

Rather than pawn off the work onto you, I will provide the setup:

Our Town, California is paving Main Street. Main Street is being converted to a smart street with plans and profiles. The design includes rights of way and state plane coordinates.

1. Does a land surveyor have to sign the construction plans? If so, why? Citation, please. In my City Surveyor jurisdiction, I sign construction plans, same is true for the County of LA.

2. The City Engineer includes the land surveying in the construction specifications. The specifications states the contractor is responsible for the construction staking and monument preservation. The contractor hires a licensed land surveyor. Any issues?

3. Contractor realizes his project manager knows CAD and decides to stake several of the improvements without the land surveyor. Any issues? The plans are on state plane coordinates, any issues? Any different answer on local coordinates?

4. Contractor works with the surveyor on the regular, he budgets $1000 per monument, only counting the 10 intersections. There exists several PIs and tract boundaries monuments not in the count for a total of 15 monuments. The contractor says "pick which 10 you want to preserve". Who is responsible? The contractor, city or private surveyor for the other five monuments?

5. Are existing monuments required to be shown on construction plans?

6. The construction is calendared for 120 days. The County is 180 days to review corner records. Does the land surveyor still file pre and post construction corner records?

7. The right of way for portions of Main Street have not been shown on a subdivision map, record of survey or official map. Is a record of survey required? Again, is a land surveyor required to sign the construction plans?

I understand that "it depends" is the starting point of the conversation and nuances alter the answers.

Thank you for any guidance.

DWoolley

By "construction plans", I am going to assume civil design plans. Please educate me on what a "smart street" is and how that differs from a "not so smart street"?

1. Depends. Did the civil engineer in responsible charge (sign/seal) of the construction plans indicate the source (person authorized to practice land surveying) of any survey information depicted on those plans? If the answer is yes, does that same civil engineer have signed/sealed survey information provided by that authorized person on file in the engineer's records?

2. Yes. The licensed contractor is prohibited from offering and providing land surveying services.

3. Same answer as 2.

4. Taking into account the response to 2. above, the contractor is prohibited from being involved in this transaction.

5. That is a good question. In my experience, it varies among jurisdictions and is likely determined by the intended use of any existing monuments during the course of the construction. Regardless, any existing monuments within the ROW would need to be addressed appropriately by Section 8771 which would lend support to requiring the existing monuments to be referenced on those plans. However, I cannot think of a law which the civil design engineer to include those.

6. Yes.

7. Yes, a record of survey is required based on the information you stated. Answer to construction plans is dependent upon your response to 1.

[DWoolley]

Ric:

Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions.

Confirmed, construction plans are civil design plans.

A smart street my be a local colloquialism. The smart streets are arterial streets the usually includes new medians, bike lanes and occasionally, pedestrian bridges. The smart portion is technically the synchronizing of the traffic lights to keep things moving.

As to question one, most land surveyors provide topography, right of way and the engineering teams will design from the land surveying data. There is no indication on the plans of the land surveyor's name or license number that provided the data. In fact, I often request this information and occasionally, find the engineer hired unlicensed, ah, "surveyors".

If the engineering plans show a basis of bearings that includes state plane coordinates, epochs and monuments, is a land surveyor's signature required on the plans?

The construction plans I review and sign have the monuments shown - this was required for preservation, but also required so the contractor's land surveyor had an accurate count and accountability.

New thought, if the contractor cannot hire the land surveyor, the awarding body i.e. public agency would have to hire the land surveyor for the construction staking, correct? In turn, the agency must use the QBS process.

When we see construction plan specifications that include land surveying in the contractor's bid, what do we do about it? Does BPELSG have an MOU with CSLB?

Is the land surveyor that works for the contractor as per the construction specifications, rather than the agency, in violation of something? In my capacity, we have five on-call land surveying firms we utilize for city work. However, on a current project the engineering team recently decided to include the land surveying in the construction contract. In turn, I rewrote the specifications to include criteria for the contractor's selected land surveyor. Any thoughts on that?

Has BPELSG updated their guides to include this information? If so, where do we find it?

DWoolley

[Ric7308]

Ric:

Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions.

Confirmed, construction plans are civil design plans.

A smart street my be a local colloquialism. The smart streets are arterial streets the usually includes new medians, bike lanes and occasionally, pedestrian bridges. The smart portion is technically the synchronizing of the traffic lights to keep things moving.

Got it. Thanks

As to question one, most land surveyors provide topography, right of way and the engineering teams will design from the land surveying data. There is no indication on the plans of the land surveyor's name or license number that provided the data. In fact, I often request this information and occasionally, find the engineer hired unlicensed, ah, "surveyors".

If the engineering plans show a basis of bearings that includes state plane coordinates, epochs and monuments, is a land surveyor's signature required on the plans?

The construction plans I review and sign have the monuments shown - this was required for preservation, but also required so the contractor's land surveyor had an accurate count and accountability.

New thought, if the contractor cannot hire the land surveyor, the awarding body i.e. public agency would have to hire the land surveyor for the construction staking, correct? In turn, the agency must use the QBS process.

Generally speaking, the person authorized to practice land surveying that provided the surveying portion would need to provide signed/sealed deliverables to the engineer and the engineer would need to include the name, license number, contact information of the surveyor along with a note that the surveying information is on file with the engineer OR the surveyor would need to sign the civil design drawings (in addition to the engineer) clearly indicating the scope of their responsibility on the plans. The citations you are looking for are the ones associated with signing and sealing documents which include land surveying information. Also, BR 475/476(c)(2, 3, 8 & 11)

When we see construction plan specifications that include land surveying in the contractor's bid, what do we do about it? Does BPELSG have an MOU with CSLB?

I'm not sure what you mean by an MOU with CSLB. If you mean do we communicate with CSLB's enforcement unit? Yes, we share information with them when we encounter situations where we have determined that licensed contractors have practiced engineering or surveying. Whether CSLB chooses to investigate/discipline their licensees is outside of our control.

Is the land surveyor that works for the contractor as per the construction specifications, rather than the agency, in violation of something? In my capacity, we have five on-call land surveying firms we utilize for city work. However, on a current project the engineering team recently decided to include the land surveying in the construction contract. In turn, I rewrote the specifications to include criteria for the contractor's selected land surveyor. Any thoughts on that?

Lots of variables. Generally speaking, if a contractor offered or performed land surveying work they are likely in violation. If the contractor has a person authorized to practice land surveying in responsible charge under their employment and are offering land surveying, then that contractor needs to comply with sections in the PLS Act related to appropriate business structure (land surveyor part of ownership, corporation, etc.) just like any other private firm offering those services, including filing an OR with the Board. Just because they are a licensed contractor doesn't mean they are exempt from complying with our laws if they offer the services. And of course, I need to add that if any licensed engineer or land surveyor KNOWINGLY assists a licensed contractor in violations constituting unlicensed practice, that engineer or licensee could be found to have aided and abetted the unlicensed practice.

There is nothing prohibiting a licensed contractor from hiring an engineer or land surveyor for their own needs. However, if the licensed contractor is subcontracting the engineer or land surveyor because the contractor bid on a project to provide those engineering or surveying services, that is unlicensed practice. This was the one of the primary reasons why those sections were repealed. Agencies misinterpreted the intent and contractors abused the use.

Has BPELSG updated their guides to include this information? If so, where do we find it?

This definitely needs to be updated by us. We began developing revisions some years ago and have not prioritized it. There are quite a number of things which need to be addressed due to changes in the laws.

DWoolley

[DWoolley]

Ric:

Thanks again for the complete answers. I appreciate it.

I am going to percolate on the information. I am sure to have more questions.

Have a good weekend.

DWoolley

[Jim Frame]

Understandable Jim. However, "...always done it..." needs to adjust as laws change.

I'm not seeing the problem: the contractor is doing construction work under my direction (my straddlers, my instructions on how to install the monument-to-be). I contend that it's not a monument in the statutory sense until I mark the actual point that the monument represents. Until then it's just an assemblage of construction materials. The Corner Record or ROS that I subsequently file further attests to my responsibility for the monument.

Expecting land surveying companies to have in-house well monument installation crews, complete with the traffic control systems, jackhammers, concrete mixers, associated OSHA training, and construction expertise required isn't just unreasonable, it's downright silly. It's always been a specialty subcontract, and rightly so.