Retainer refund scam?

[Randy Benson]

We got an email with the subject line "Hello There"; the body reads "This is David Link
I'm a general contractor and I'm looking for a land survey. What area do you serve?"

I replied "Send me an address or APN and I'll send you a proposal".

He replied with an address of a 30 ac site in Los Angeles and I sent a proposal and a retainer invoice.
He paid the retainer by ACH and the funds cleared.

One day later he sent: "Good morning, I am writing to formally request a refund for the payment I made for the land surveying services rendered for my property Unfortunately, I have recently been informed that there is a government hold on the property, which prevents any further transactions or developments from proceeding at this time. Given this unexpected situation, I believe it is appropriate to request a refund for the services that cannot be utilized due to the hold. Please let me know the process for initiating this refund and if I can send over my wire transfer info or Zelle . I appreciate your understanding and prompt attention to this matter. Thank you for your cooperation. Best regards,"

The very next day we got an email with the subject line "Hello"; the body reads "This is David Toal
I'm a general contractor and I'm looking for a land survey. What area do you serve?"

These must be scams, right? But how do they work? Has anyone else gotten one of these? What's the object of the exercise? How can I safely refund the deposit? Should I report this to the FTC? The California AG?

[Randy Benson]

Just heard from a detectiive. It's a money-laundering scam. They're washing stolen funds.

[wingding]

Its is a scam. I used to ask for a deposit but have changed it to a retainer.
If a client wants cancel, I explain that the retainer bought a spot on the calendar and is not refundable.
If the money is in your account, keep it and tell them they have a credit towards future survey work.

[Randy Benson]

Interesting POV. I'd be comfortable with that idea if it weren't some innocent third party's funds.

My standard agreement calls for a retainer, not a deposit, but I may have to rephrase a couple of things going forward...

Does your contract emphasize that the retainer is non-refundable? Does it state the amount as "liquidated damages"?

I found this while searching online:
A classic retainer "is a sum of money paid by a client to secure an attorney's availability over a given period of time. Thus, such a fee is earned by the attorney when paid since the attorney is entitled to the money regardless of whether he actually performs any services for the client…By contrast, a retainer given as an advance deposit against future fees constitutes property held in trust for the benefit of the client and, as such, is property of the client.”
77 F.3d 1201

[Randy Benson]

It looks like classic non-refundable retainers are exclusively for attorneys (figures!).
Also found this:
Retainer: Refundability depends on the retainer type:
Faithful retainers are typically non-refundable, but they remain rare and are heavily scrutinized.
Security retainers and advance fees are refundable until the lawyer earns them through actual work, even if the contract says otherwise.
Attorneys who mislabel advance fees as “non-refundable retainers” risk disciplinary action for violating ethical rules.

[Peter Ehlert]

create a paper trail.
not just email. print the email on Paper and ask to correspond by USPS.
Inform your bank about what is going on.

I have no qualms about refunding all of it, but charge for All of your time involved.

the detective's opinion that it is money-laundering and stolen funds is off the wall. It's just an Opinion.
(remember "money-laundering" can just be Tax Avoidance ... we all avoid taxation)

in this day of rampant Sanctions getting access to your money can be blocked or made very difficult.
going to the bank and getting Cash for your money on deposit might be a Big surprise.

Inform your bank about what is going on. phone call first, then follow with Paper.
you don't want to have a stinky finger if your client is being pursued...

CHARGE for your time for that too.

PS: personally, one of my banks was accused of some off the wall wrong doing, and got sanctioned.
access to My Money is difficult...and defiantly not easy or fast.

[-D-A-]

Two weeks ago, we were contacted through our website by an individual identifying himself as “Harvey Kamens,” requesting a proposal for a topographic and boundary survey for a parcel in Taft, California. We provided a proposal and requested a signed agreement along with the required deposit.

The same day, "Harvey" returned a signed contract and advised that he would be mailing a cashier's check for the deposit. The following day, we received an email from "Harvey" stating that his accounting department had mistakenly issued a cashier’s check in an amount exceeding the required deposit by $10,000. He then requested that we wire back the $10,000 overpayment.

We decided to wait and see whether any payment would actually arrive. A few days later, Harvey contacted us again, advising that he had been tracking the shipment and that the check had been delivered to our post office box. We picked up the mail and found the cashier’s check enclosed. At first glance, the check appeared legitimate and included watermarks, heat seals, and other apparent security features.

Out of caution, we took the check to our bank for verification. After reviewing, the bank rep noted small irregularities in the print quality and contacted his former supervisor at Chase Bank for further review. It was ultimately confirmed that the cashier’s check was fraudulent. In the words of the bank rep "it's a really good fake.”

The bank rep explained that this type of scam is designed to exploit the delay between a check being initially accepted for deposit and the bank ultimately determining that the cashier’s check is fraudulent. In this case, the belief was that the scammer "Harvey" anticipated it could take approximately 2–3 business days for the fraud to be identified and was hoping that we would wire the requested $10,000 “refund” before the check was formally rejected by the banking system.

The info was submitted to FBI. Please be vigilant. These types of scams are clearly targeting survey businesses.

[-D-A-]

Additional note to businesses: legitimate accounting errors can and do occur. However, in my opinion, it is generally unwise to send or request refund payments to correct an overpayment situation. A safer approach is to request that the sender place a stop payment on the incorrect check and issue a new check for the correct amount. May take a little longer, but it helps protect all parties.

[bruce hall]

i have received several such emails. didn't like the look of them. did not respond to them. bruce

[Peter Ehlert]

"it's a really good fake.”
Story of my life.

Good catch.
Now go and be careful out there...

[hellsangle]

AI is in the scam business, too!

A long retired surveyor received a cryptic email from what I think may be an AI-bot, asking for his field notes. His survey is recorded so it is “of record”, (which AI could easily surmise).

I suggested that he not reply as his client is no longer the owner of that parcel. Whomever this AI-bot represents is certainly not his client. Therefore he does not have an obligation to respond unless he is in contract with the phisher-person.

Weeks later I receive the same request from a similar email address asking for the contact information of this retired surveyor. However it is addressed to a “Dr. Armsbarger” at my business email address! “Dr. Armsbarger” was a cover letter joke, from a made-up psychiatrist that my friend wrote, to accompany the biography for my 30th high school reunion! (He wrote such a funny bio of me - that every time I read it . . . I’m laughing out loud!)

Yep, you guessed it - Crazy Phil

[wingding]

I get one about every month now.
I now respond with "I will send a proposal by the end of the week" and then I delete it.