Stamp, Signature and Standards of Care

[LS_8750]

What does it really mean to stamp and sign your work product?

Have a look at the attached from the perspective of an attorney who has defended design professionals and others in the A/E industry for decades.
It is a good read.

[Mike Mueller]

Thanks for posting, good read.

Mikey Mueller, PLS 9076
Sonoma County

[PLS7393]

What does it really mean to stamp and sign your work product?

On a similar note, a City Surveyor is asking for my closure calcs (for a Parcel Map) to stamped and signed. I submitted complete closure calcs with the initial submittal and never heard any issues. Now with the second submittal, this is now an issue?

How many cities throughout the State, do you know require closure calcs to be stamped & signed? Are closure calcs truly a document issued (or are they prepared as supporting documents)?

If closure calcs are required to be signed, shouldn't all emails be stamped and signed as well? Emails and map reviews from government employees are a survey document, and a report. How far does one want to take the interpretation of Sect. 8761

Additionally, same agency comments when I include "DRAFT" across my seal, and show a place holder for others stamp/seal to be included come the final map. The supervisor overseeing the technician/engineering tech. doesn't educate them, and I have to reference the section, and educate them that it is required under the PLS Act, but they still leave the comment on.

[Jim Frame]

I make a distinction between draft documents provided to an end-user and those submitted to a public agency for review. Accordingly, I don't mark record map review submittals with any "draft" or "preliminary" notations, and I don't sign/seal closure calcs. If an agency asks for either I'll do it just to keep the ball rolling, but I don't think I've ever had to.

[D Ryan]

Reading the relevant sections of the PLS Act (Section 8761) that discuss requirements to stamp/sign, I infer it's only for those items that require a license. Are closure calcs a licensed land surveyor activity? Are non-licensed folks violating the law if they prepare and submit closure calcs? Writing that makes me feel like it's a silly discussion that we shouldn't be having. But Keith encountered it, so here we are.

I'm a City Surveyor and wouldn't require it. I also submit Records of Survey for filing with the County Surveyor and have never stamped/signed closures. I do mark my submittals as "preliminary". They typically already have my stamp (and the County Surveyor's) on the first submittal, but are not signed.

Dave Ryan
Arcata, Ca.

(b) All maps, plats, reports, descriptions, or other land surveying documents shall be prepared by, or under the responsible charge of, a licensed land surveyor or civil engineer authorized to practice land surveying and shall include his or her name and license number.
(c) Interim maps, plats, reports, descriptions, or other land surveying documents shall include a notation as to the intended purpose of the map, plat, report, description, or other document, such as “preliminary” or “for examination only.”
(d) All final maps, plats, reports, descriptions, or other land surveying documents issued by a licensed land surveyor or civil engineer authorized to practice land surveying shall bear the signature and seal or stamp of the licensee and the date of signing and sealing or stamping. If the land surveying document has multiple pages or sheets, the signature, seal or stamp, and date of signing and sealing or stamping shall appear, at a minimum, on the title sheet, cover sheet or page, or signature sheet, unless otherwise required by law.

[PLS7393]

Well said Dave, and I agree 100%.

I too have never required such supporting documents be signed & sealed when I was in the appropriate position at the City of Hayward, San Mateo County, or currently as a city consultant.

Now if this was on a agency checklist that was codified, then one would have to submit as requested.

[E_Page]

If I recall correctly, the Board did cite a failure to sign/stamp or indicate as Preliminary a map submitted for review many years ago. It was among a broader set of violations. I would be mildly surprised if they have ever cited someone on that as a sole violation. By law, a review map copy should be marked "Preliminary" or "Draft".

A (questionable and anal) argument could be made that closures are "other land surveying documents". I don't stamp closures, but if a particularly officious reviewer asked for it, I'd roll my eyes and do it. Although utterly unnecessary, it doesn't unduly add to my liability or create an onerous burden on me or my client. It's merely a nuisance.

Thanks for the article Clark.

[CBarrett]

In a lot of cases agencies will start asking for a stamp and signature on closures when they start seeing a high volume of unchecked closures. Typically it is to send a message out there to not just print them and let someone else read through make sure they match the map.

Suspicion is that the PLS let's an entry level technician run the closures and never looks at them, or instructs the tech to compare them to the map.

When I check maps and see too many errors I send them back with resubmittal instructions, something along the line of saying that it is the surveyor of record responsibility to review the closures and ensure they match the map prior to resubmittal.

Theoretically all calcs and maps produced by the LS should be signed and stamped. Most people turn the blind eye to closures.

[Scott]

I stamp and sign everything. All map/desc/closure submittals and reviews of maps/descs/closures I check for jurisdictions.
I also have my company name, phone, and address on everything.