Bullz Eye

[LS_8750]

Looking west to east on the attached.
The line, about 2000 feet in length, was created by deed in 1898.
The old railroad tie fence posts came from the Schellville rail stop and were loaded onto wagons, brought over a hand full of miles and set shortly after, or during, the time the original surveyor was on site.
The old vine row is about 50-60 years old and follows the fence line about 1.5 feet north of the old posts.

A line of monuments per recent record of survey were found in the vineyard on the left 20 feet away from the old fence posts.
Methodology employed to set the monuments was "holding record angle", otherwise known as Santeria.

Life in the Bullz Eye.

[Jim Frame]

Wow.

[Timothy J. Reilly]

That’s pretty sexy research. I doubt that information was provided on any map from 1898.

Seems to me you just raised the bar. Thank you.

[LS_8750]

Here is an ALTA survey, no monuments indicated, non-decipherable line work, encroachments, non-encroachments, you name it.
The catch? A firm right out of the Gold Star Poster Child Orange County.
Holiday in the Bullz Eye......

Of course I found original monuments, non-record monuments, all sorts of things that contradicted the ALTA.

[DWoolley]

The legal description is a parcel from a filed parcel map. In addition to no monuments, the ALTA survey documents encroachments in the southeast corner. Does the documentation of the encroachments required the filing of a record of survey?

In a previous lifetime, I would have sent that ALTA to BPELSG.

DWoolley

[LS_8750]

I found record monuments, non-record monuments (chased down the old surveyor to no avail), I found more agreement with occupation based on monuments found than that shown on the ALTA. The SE corner encroachments were significant..... We found an original parcel map pipe in the parking lot under the AC and base rock......... All the usual stuff....

[LS_8750]

I like being a land surveyor, I like surveying......
I used to be Gung Ho when arriving on the job site like, "We're Surveyors!" :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpTpONqojSc

But I'm older now, and I see more like the old rancher/farmer ............ Who views surveyors as fraudsters....... Calling off 100 years plus old fence lines........... Or like the Afghani freedom fighters above........

I don't like being stereotyped as a grifter..... I've worked too hard.......

[LS_8750]

Is the Bullz Eye limited to Benson and his pals and their tentacles extending from the San Francisco Bay?
Not a chance.

There was and is no escape from the Bullz Eye in California.

A good read to illustrate this point is David Igler's "Industrial Cowboys". Link here: https://www.ucpress.edu/books/industrial-cowboys/paper

Igler was a UC history professor and in his book he tells the story of Miller and Lux and their massive and vast cattle ranching operation that began after the war with Mexico and statehood and spanned into the early 20th century. It is a fascinating story of California history where ranchos were bought cheap, railroads were routed to suit the mutual benefit of the cattle operation and the railroads, County assessors, recorders, politicians were all on the Miller and Lux payroll. Oh, and surveyors too.......

The model was set. And many followed after. Think dams and bridges and Federal and State Water Projects. Think of the iron cowboys who graded out all the roads and pads in So Cal.

Think of the Gold Rush and the hydraulic mining and the levees and the squatting on non-confirmed rancho lands and the stealing and desperation.

California is the Bullz Eye.

[E_Page]

A lot of P.O.S. surveyors and P.O.S. companies creating drawings on which they certify to performing to ALTA/NSPS standards without coming close to meeting the standards.

Turn the P.O.S. in to BPELSG. I reviewed an enforcement case several years ago for a very similarly performed ALTA. The surveyor's license was revoked.

[LS_8750]

Holiday in the Bullz Eye.....

A lesson in how to steal water rights, brought to you not from the makers of the movie China Town, but by your professional land surveyor community.

For background, the well and well house were constructed in 1958. The east/west line was created by map in 1907. The well house location, and the old railroad tie fence post fit the ancient east/west fence line that has been rebuilt in sections time and time again over the last 3/4 century.

Even more interesting is who paid for the survey.

Back to the egg nog and schnapps.

[Peter Ehlert]

You got my attention.
Tell us the rest of the story

[David Kendall]

For background, the well and well house were constructed in 1958. The east/west line was created by map in 1907. The well house location, and the old railroad tie fence post fit the ancient east/west fence line that has been rebuilt in sections time and time again over the last 3/4 century.

The doctrine of parallelism strikes again! All lot lines are considered to be perfectly parallel to the nearest monumented right of way regardless of the pedigree of said monuments or the prior historic establishment of the lot lines.

North SF bay epidemic. Something funny in their water cooler….

[DWoolley]

For background, the well and well house were constructed in 1958. The east/west line was created by map in 1907. The well house location, and the old railroad tie fence post fit the ancient east/west fence line that has been rebuilt in sections time and time again over the last 3/4 century.

The doctrine of parallelism strikes again! All lot lines are considered to be perfectly parallel to the nearest monumented right of way regardless of the pedigree of said monuments or the prior historic establishment of the lot lines.
….

Please tell me more about this "doctrine of parallelism...regardless of the pedigree of said monuments". A citation to authority would be greatly appreciated [or was this intended to be tongue in cheek. Captivated.]

DWoolley

[LS_8750]

Parallel only exists in a geometry quiz or in another universe.

Hopefully, somebody out there is reading through the negativity expressed in these threads and seeing there are lessons to be learned. When I started on this forum 15 years ago, I learned a great deal from the threads and comments. I had just gotten licensed and joined CLSA, and the number one thing I learned was that I did not have the slightest idea how in depth the profession of land surveying truly was and that I needed to get my act together and start learning.

[David Kendall]

Please tell me more about this "doctrine of parallelism...regardless of the pedigree of said monuments". A citation to authority would be greatly appreciated [or was this intended to be tongue in cheek. Captivated.

Yes I was being facetious. I have colleagues who believe in this and will defend it using quotes from Curtis Brown books.

I find it damaging to clients who believe what surveyors tell them, then have to spend thousands of dollars to document all of the relevant evidence and overwhelm the poor reasoning shown on their survey or their neighbors’ who are now trying to move 50-100 year old fences and walls to fit “parallel to the street”

This practice reduces our professional status to charlatan level

[Jim Frame]

I don't know about a "doctrine of parallelism," but I've held lot lines within a block parallel. The one instance that comes to mind was a block in a 1926 subdivision, about 1000' N-S by 300' E-W, with non-parallel tiers on each end of the block. I re-established the block lines from improvement splits as the best available evidence. Fences varied from right on to over a foot off. Prorating along both sides of the block would have produced a different result by less than 0.1'.

The CS argued for strict proration. We settled on a note: "Application of proportionate measure along El Dorado Way would result in alternate locations of those lot corners."