Quick Question For…

[Ian Wilson]

…the Public Sector folks working for the State of California…

Back when I was a Caltrans Employee and began to do work “on the side”, I had to file paperwork disclosing the fact. The paperwork was required to be filed with the Secretary of State every year and included a statement that I would not perform any surveys that abutted State Lands or State Rights-of-Way as that would be considered to be a conflict of interest. Failure to do so and to abide by the guidelines could have resulted in termination.

Are you still required to file that paperwork? Do you? Is it only Caltrans? Does it apply to other State Departments such as State Lands, Dept. of Water Resources, etc?

I’d just like to know…

[PLS7393]

When I was in district 4 headquarters after licensure in 1996, I was never informed of the filing of such documents. When I left Caltrans for both a city and currently a county, I was open about my business and appropriate paperwork was authorized to allow me to work after hours for my own business.

Similar to your comments about working adjoining state lands or right of way, I am not authorized to perform any survey work within the current jurisdiction of my employment, to alleviate any potential conflict of interest.

[goodgps]

I find it interesting that this type of notification was required.
Over 10 years ago, a State employee "sidewinder" stole a staking job from me.

I had prepared a topo survey and exposed existing corners from a record parcel map. (along a small Norcal Highway) I also checked into a section corner and quarter corner to verify the old parcel map corners.

It seems this "sidewinder" didnt use the control and the on-site curb ended up in the highway ROW.

The "State" inspector caught the error and tried to pin it on me, and really pushed that issue harder when he found out the project was actually staked by one of his buddy's.

Had I known about this "reporting" and prohibiting near ROW thing, Maaaaan that would've been sweet.

I have a feeling we will see a lot of "sidewinding" with this economy.
Buyer be ware

[E_Page]

Direct answer to your question, Ian: Yes. I had to fill out that paperwork the first week I landed at the SLC. I think that there was a statement that basically paralleled §476(b)(4) as to doing work that would potentially be subject to review by the SLC, but I don't remember a broader prohibition of accepting work abutting any state land.

I do not see the slightest conflict of interest if I were to accept a project adjacent to lands admiistered by Caltrans, State Parks, CDF, or any of several agencies other than State Lands.

Unfortunately, this signed statement doesn't prevent some gov't employees from severely undercutting their fully private competitors and looking at this type of work as getting a little easy money on the side.

It also doesn't impart a sense of morality upon the gov't employee who may see nothing wrong with borrowing the gov't survey equipment on an evening or weekend to get his easy side money without the pesky hassle and cost of buying or renting equipment.

As both a private surveyor and as a gov't surveyor, I find that breach of ethics aggravating.



If you're a gov't surveyor, get your own equipment and don't use ANY gov't equipment or resources toward your private work (that includes vests, pocket tapes, stakes, nails, flagging, ...). While you are working private jobs to supplement your income as a gov't surveyor, your fully private competition is doing so as their primary source of income. They are (in most cases) providing potential clients with reasonable fee estimates to do the work. Don't deliberatley undercut them because all you need is enough $ to buy a new fishing pole while they need enough to pay their mortgage (and pay their employees, office rent, utilities, insurance, taxes, vehicle maintenance, ...) - provide reasonable estimates based upon the value of the work. And do not take projects where your gov't position gives you a distinct advantage, such as info not readily available to other surveyors or work POTENTIALLY subject to your review in your gov't position.

[Gary O]

Being a County Surveyor, I am prohibited from doing any survey work within the county because of their claim of 'conflict of interest'. When it comes to subdivisions or other discretionary or ministerial projects I can understand how the public could easily perceive that my project was done sooner or with fewer conditions, even if it wasn't. Records of survey, though, are not a discretionary project (the county HAS to file it, even if it's with a note) and really shouldn't fall under that same umbrella.

That being said, I think it would be inappropriate for me to work within my own jurisdiction if only because I get several calls a week from citizens looking for someone to survey their lots and it would be like fishing from a barrel. Especially in this economy, I have a steady job and I'd be taking money out of my friend's pockets (although I did get tired of hearing about all the cool stuff they were buying a few years ago while I puttered along on county scale!) Also, anyone doing private work with gov't equipment is doing so as a 'gift of public funds' and is breaking the law.

Once I'm retired I will do some consulting and map/plan checking and will have "Former County Surveyor" on my card and in my ad...anybody got a problem with that?

[E_Page]

I don't know, Gary. I've followed one former CS in my area on a couple of surveys where he shows a 1/4 corner (in each case) that is neither set nor found, not position re-established from record ties to other mons, not by single proportion (or by intx for a C 1/4 in one case), and not even by record angle and distance from some other mons. He just kind of declares "here is where I say it is and here is what I base my survey on." It caused problems when one tries to re-establish lines correctly.

I'd bet, judging from some of his work when he wasn't CS, that he would not have cut those corners if he knew that someone else would be reviewing his RS. Not much chance of a CS adding a note of disagreement to his own map. I would also bet that his maps went to the top of the review stack ahead of his private competitors.

There are two really good reasons, that could be described as a conflict, why you shouldn't do RSs as private work in the County where you are CS.

I'm not saying that you would do either of these things yourself. But some would, and some have.


By the time you retire, you might look just like some of the surplus govt survey equipment: beat up, decrepit, and out of date. You may need the advantage of that gov't surplus title, so go ahead and use it. ;-D

Seriously, I see no problem with stating what position you once held. Although I'd be more inclined to use "Retired County Surveyor", as conveys that you held the position until you were ready to leave on your terms, and "Former" might leave some wondering if that means that you might have been fired.

[Gary O]

All very good reasons to not do work in your own jurisdiction. Whether there were any shinanigans or not, you have the perception there were.

Good idea on 'retired' rather than 'former'!

I haven't done field work in many years so I'm going to stick to my strengths....writing legals and putting red marks on maps! HA!

[JLG3RD]

I'm employeed by the State and every year I have to sign an affidavite stating that I will not use State Equipment for any side work. It also mentions not doing any side work on any State project. I should be signing another one again shortly in the new year. If your doing side private work and it abuts up to State RW you can do th ework as long as it's not a State funded job.

[Ric7308]

I've had this question come up a few times (most recently about 2-3 weeks ago) and I know Howard addressed this more than once.

As suggested earlier, review the Board Rules for licensing and Code of Conduct compliance and as always if you are unsure or just want to run it by for another opinion, give us a call. It's best to be as informed as you need to be.

Ric

[PLS7393]

Gary, I don't think there is any problems with using the wording "Former" or "Retired" on your business cards, but I feel they are not needed, as you are still a licensed professional in the State of California. During your initial contact and proposal stages, I would use the "Retired County Surveyor" to your advantage, and educate the public that you "know" what your doing. Don't forget to charge extra for your knowledge, and you would be surprised that the work will still come your way.