CLTA v ALTA

[goodgps]

Sorry,
I searched the posts and other documents and can't come up with a definate answer to this question posed by a title officer. . . . .

The Title officer has requested quotes from me to perform 1.) a "CLTA" survey and then 2.) an "ALTA" survey on a certain piece of property.

I requested the "special provisions" for each survey, however, his response was that "I" am the professional . . . .figure them out myself, and get the quotes to him ASAP.

We are all very familiar with the ALTA minimum standards . . . etc.

I simply cant find anything concrete about the CLTA survey ?????

To me it looks like and ALTA . . . in California ?

Please clear the Bone from my head if you can . . .

Thanks "Cave Man" Good

[mpallamary]

CLTA POLICIES


CLTA OWNERS INSURANCE:
This is the most common type of owners’ insurance available for any commercial property, residential real property and vacant land. The CLTA policy insures:


Ownership of the property
That there is access if the property abuts upon an open, public, dedicated street
That there are no forgeries or failed conveyances in the chain of title
That the insured has a marketable interest in the real property
The CLTA Owners Policy insures all recorded matters affecting title to the property in order of their priority. In other words, it will show the lender of the first mortgage before the lender on the second mortgage because the first lender has priority.

The CLTA policy may also be ordered by lenders, normally on second deeds of trust by individuals and non-banking or savings and loan lenders. When the CLTA policy is ordered for lenders, it insures all types of property, normally on second deeds of trust by individuals and non-banking or savings and loan lenders. The CLTA policy does not cover:


Matters which a correct survey would show
Unrecorded matters
Matters which a physical inspection of the property would disclose
Rights of parties in possession
Unpatented water and mineral rights
Matters known, created or assumed by the insured
*******************

See: http://www.firstamne.com/general/eagle_lender.htm

http://www.clta.org/for-consumers/consumer-general.html

[E_Page]

No such thing as a CLTA survey as they have not produced any standards. They only refer to a "correct" survey.

Your unprofessional title professional should be at least as aware as you of this. If he is a title professional, he should be familiar with the CLTA provisions, right?

[goodgps]

Cool,
based upon the CLTA poilicy explaination and the other inputs, I think I have an Idea of what they are looking for.

I will be sure to specify my contract, so I dont get jammed into doing an ALTA and a low-ball price.

If they want the low-ball survey, I will make them provide the current title report and so state on my plat that this report is part of the plat.

I hope we dont find any more "Dead" owners or ancient trails. or buried bodies . . . . A while back I found a murder weapon with my Metal detector . . .great !!! . . .just absolutely great !!!!

Why can we NEVER find that old chest full of money and jewels ?

[mpallamary]

Good luck. Your comments just threw me on the floor! Now you'll have to testify in court about the weapon!

Take the weekend off. You deserve it.

[E_Page]

You know that they are going to have you start on the lower price that you give them for the non-ALTA, and then send you some onerously long, legally outrageous certification to put on the drawing just before you prepare the drawing.

Better protect yourself on that matter right up front.

With that low price, include in your proposal a certification that you authored which states that the survey does not meet ALTA standards, along with some innocuous or liability-neutral statements about what the survey was performed for, and what the drawing is and is not intended to show, no warranties express or implied, blah, blah, blah.

Include a provision either in your contract, or in your proposal letter (contract should refer to that letter) stating that the only other acceptable certification will be the one out of the ALTA standards, no other certifications accepted (provide them with a copy of latest standards), and that requesting that certification after fieldwork is performed may require additional fieldwork, research, and other associated costs in order to bring existing work up to the ALTA standards.

Also better explain that route could be significantly more expensive than just contracting for the ALTA in the first place.

[mpallamary]

Here is one of my contract provisions:

10. ALTA Surveys. Client agrees that in performing requested ALTA surveys in accordance with this Agreement, Consultant may be required to sign a statement on the survey documents in a form set forth in Exhibit 1 attached hereto and incorporated herein by this reference. In the event that Consultant is required to sign a statement or certificate which differs from that contained in Exhibit 1, Client hereby agrees to indemnify and hold Consultant harmless from any and all liability arising from or resulting from the signing of any such different statement.

[bubblewatcher]

I have not had a title company require a survey to issue a CLTA Title policy. Nor have I seen a CLTA certification. I have prepared a boundary and topographic survey which used a standard certification. If im not mistaken the CLTA policy offers faaaaaaar less coverage anyway and does not cover encraochments. I would give them a punchlist of items you will show, and the certification you will use. Incorporate that list into your proposal. If some one here has a copy of "minimum standard requirements for a CLTA survey" i would sure like to see it.

[mpallamary]

Interesting Coordinates Mr. Meade.

[Anthony Maffia]

IIRC, a CLTA policy is intended for situations where a survey is not required.

[land butcher]

Here is one of my contract provisions:

10. ALTA Surveys. Client agrees that in performing requested ALTA surveys in accordance with this Agreement, Consultant may be required to sign a statement on the survey documents in a form set forth in Exhibit 1 attached hereto and incorporated herein by this reference. In the event that Consultant is required to sign a statement or certificate which differs from that contained in Exhibit 1, Client hereby agrees to indemnify and hold Consultant harmless from any and all liability arising from or resulting from the signing of any such different statement.

Most definitely. Some of the certs surveyors sign are really scary

[mpallamary]

Amen to that. I charge by the word - just like the attorneys.

[Ian Easton]

Interesting. We had an engineer request a "CLTA Survey" back in 2006. I couldn't find any sttndards for it either but he insisted (without providing me any standards) - it ended up becoming an ALTA.