Bylaw Proposal Clarification

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Bylaw Proposal Clarification

Post by Administrator »

[font=&quot]B[/font][font=&quot]ylaw [/font][font=&quot]P[/font][font=&quot]roposal [/font][font=&quot]C[/font][font=&quot]larification[/font]

[font=&quot]I have heard that CLSA is in the process of expelling a member. Comments indicate that the expulsion is because the leadership is angry due to sensitive questions being asked. What is going on? Why isn’t this reported to the membership?[/font]
[font=&quot]Just as an employer would not publish employee reviews or disciplinary actions, a Board of Directors does not publish disciplinary actions of a Director. For the good of the Director and the Association, confidentiality is maintained. [/font]

[font=&quot]Although we will not disclose the reasons for any possible disciplinary action, we assure the membership it has nothing to do with sensitive questions being asked. Lately, the Board of Directors has been dealing with an unprecedented situation; one that has forced the Board to take action under attorney-client privilege session. We ask that you can maintain trust and confidence that they will do what is in the best interest of CLSA.[/font]

[font=&quot]I have heard that these bylaws are being rushed through and that there is a sudden urge to amend the bylaws in order to discipline a member. [/font]
[font=&quot]This is completely untrue. There has not been a rush to amend the bylaws. In fact, the bylaws have been under review since April 2012. Further, the current bylaws and the California Nonprofit Corporations Code already provide the means to discipline a member. The proposed bylaws amendments and disciplinary actions of a member are not related. [/font]

[font=&quot]I have heard that CLSA is not following proper procedures to discipline a member. What does the law require to expel or suspend a member?[/font]
[font=&quot]Corporate Code, Section 7341, specifically defines what is “fair and reasonableâ€￾ in regard to expulsion or suspension of a member. The proposed bylaws mimic the requirements outlined in Corporate Code. This includes 15 days notice and the ability to be heard orally and in writing not less than 5 days prior to the effective date.[/font]

[font=&quot]The proposed bylaws amend Section 2.08 dealing with expelling a member and includes the statement: “The Board or its designee shall determine whether cause exists and the appropriate discipline, if any.â€￾ What does this mean? Who is the Designee?[/font]
[font=&quot]Section 2.08 provides the Board of Directors the option to appoint a Committee or individual to decide a disciplinary case. However, any action will still require a 2/3 vote of the entire Board of Directors – a “designeeâ€￾ cannot make the final decision. Only the Board has the power to expel a member.[/font]

[font=&quot]A complete history of the proposed changes to section 2.08 is attached.[/font]

[font=&quot]I have heard that the proposed bylaws reduce the notice time for a special meetings. Is that true?[/font]
[font=&quot]No, that is absolutely not true. The proposed bylaws amendment actually increases the notice time for special meetings from seven to ten days. California Corporate law only requires 4 days by mail or 48 hours by phone. See Corporate Code Section 7211.[/font]

[font=&quot]I have heard that the proposed bylaws fundamentally change the structure of CLSA and members will not be represented.[/font]
[font=&quot]The proposed bylaws do not change the structure of CLSA. CLSA, just as any other corporation, is governed by a Board of Directors. The Board of Directors is elected by the membership through the local Chapters. Each local Chapter qualifies to elect one Director for every 20 members. The CLSA Board of Directors consists of 55 members (all licensed Land Surveyors) from around the state.[/font]

[font=&quot]There has been confusion regarding the term “representative,â€￾ and many people believed that a Chapter has the right or authority to direct a Director on how to vote on a matter before the board. This is simply not true. The change in name from “Representativeâ€￾ to “Directorâ€￾ in no way changes the structure of CLSA. It only more clearly identifies the Directors’ position on the Board. [/font][font=&quot]The “duty of loyaltyâ€￾ and a “fiduciary dutyâ€￾ of a member of a Board of Directors (whether their title be “representativeâ€￾ or “directorâ€￾) are defined by law. [/font][font=&quot]Under California corporate law, a director (representative) is sent to the state board to exercise sound business judgment, and to serve the best interests of the entity (Association) and its members as a whole, not simply to cast votes as directed by the chapter. See attached article on Board Members and Conflicts of Loyalty.[/font]

[font=&quot]I heard that the bylaw proposal removes supervision of the Executive Director and that she will have unchecked authority should the bylaw proposal pass. True or False?[/font]
[font=&quot]False. Some members have drawn this incorrect conclusion based on amendments to section 4.04. This amendment actually clarifies the difference between the Board (as a whole) and a Director (an individual). If you review all the changes to section 4.04 you will note that the entire section is modified to reflect the duties of Directors as individuals. The individual Directors (for which there are nearly 60) do not have individual authority to supervise the Officers, Executive Director or any other contractor hired by CLSA. That authority rests with the Board as a whole body and is already outlined in section 4.02; and the Board’s authority to supervise the Executive Director is virtually unlimited. [/font]

[font=&quot]The proposed bylaws eliminate the ability to vote by proxy. Why?[/font]
[font=&quot]Proxy voting is prohibited by the California Nonprofit Corporation Code. See Code Section 7211 (c)[/font]

[font=&quot]I have heard that the proposed bylaw changes will weaken larger Chapters because of the limit on Alternate Directors.[/font]
[font=&quot]CLSA like most corporations is governed by a Board of Directors. However, CLSA is unique in that it allows for Alternate Directors. Alternate Directors are given the same authority as a Director and are allowed to fill-in at a Board of Directors meeting in the absence of the Director. Most corporations do not allow for an alternate. When the Policy and Procedure Committee first reviewed the bylaws they recommended removing the option for an Alternate. There are only 4 meetings that Directors must attend each year and the Committee reasoned that the rotating use of Alternate Directors does not allow for the consistency needed when topics overlap meetings. [/font]

[font=&quot]The Board of Directors did not favor the elimination of Alternates but instead limited the number of Alternates that can be elected. The proposed bylaws limit the number of Alternates to 2. That provides every Chapter, regardless of how many Directors they elect, 2 Alternates that can fill-in in the place of an absent Director.[/font]

[font=&quot]Directors are making a commitment to attend 4 meetings each year when they agree to accept the position. There should be no reason that this amendment should weaken any Chapter – large or small. [/font]

[font=&quot]Why do the members have so little time to review the proposed bylaws? Why not provide opportunity for members to participate in the process?[/font]
[font=&quot]The bylaws set forth the process for bylaw amendments, and opportunity for member input has been fairly extensive. See Article 15 which outlines the 30 day timeline and process. However, CLSA values input from the membership and every member, for the last several years, has had the opportunity to review the proposed bylaws and provide input - prior to adoption by the Board of Directors and dissemination of the ballot. Here is a timeline…[/font]

[font=&quot]April 2012[/font][font=&quot] the Policy and Procedure Committee was formed. They were directed to revise the bylaws to address confusion on the issue of fiduciary duty and bring the bylaws into conformance with the California Corporations Code (Nonprofit Corporation Law).[/font]

[font=&quot]June 2012[/font][font=&quot] the Policy and Procedure Committee met for two days and reviewed the bylaws. The Committee used the Corporations Code, Law of Association, and Legal Guide for Association Board Members as resources.[/font]

[font=&quot]November 2012[/font][font=&quot] the Executive Committee and the Association’s attorney completed the review of the proposed bylaw amendments.[/font]

[font=&quot]January 2013[/font][font=&quot] the agenda was emailed to all Board members, Chapter Officers and Past Presidents. The agenda included the proposed bylaws that would be reviewed at the February 2013 Board meeting. Chapters reviewed the bylaws and provided feedback with written comments, questions and suggestions being submitted to the Board of Directors.[/font]

[font=&quot]February 2013[/font][font=&quot] the Board of Directors reviewed the bylaws through Section 5.04. Some items were approved and others sent back to the Policy and Procedure Committee for further review and research.[/font]

[font=&quot]April 2013[/font][font=&quot] the agenda (with the proposed bylaw amendments) was emailed to all Board members, Chapter Officers and Past Presidents. This provided further opportunity for Chapters to review the proposed bylaws with their membership.[/font]

[font=&quot]April 2013[/font][font=&quot] the Board of Directors further reviewed and modified the proposed bylaws.[/font]

[font=&quot]July 2013[/font][font=&quot] the agenda (with the proposed bylaw amendments) was emailed to all Board members, Chapter Officers and Past Presidents. This provided further opportunity for Chapters to review the proposed bylaws with their membership.[/font]

[font=&quot]July 2013[/font][font=&quot] the Board of Directors postponed further review of bylaws until the November 2013 meeting.[/font]

[font=&quot]October 2013[/font][font=&quot] the agenda (with the proposed bylaw amendments) was emailed to all Board members, Chapter Officers and Past Presidents. This provided further opportunity for Chapters to review the proposed bylaws with their membership.[/font]

[font=&quot]November 2013[/font][font=&quot] the Board approved the remaining bylaws and sent those items referred to committee back to the Policy and Procedure Committee.[/font]

[font=&quot]February 2014[/font][font=&quot] the Directors were asked to bring the bylaws back to their local membership discuss, and send all comments to Jay Seymour by February 24th. Several emails were received by the membership.[/font]

[font=&quot]March 2014[/font][font=&quot] the Policy & Procedure Committee met. Bylaws were reviewed and edited based on feedback received.[/font]

[font=&quot]March 2014[/font][font=&quot] the agenda (with the proposed bylaw amendments) was emailed to all Board members, Chapter Officers and Past Presidents. This provided further opportunity for Chapters to review the proposed bylaws with their membership.[/font]

[font=&quot]April 2014[/font][font=&quot] the Board of Directors approved the bylaws to be sent to the voting (Corporate) members for final vote.[/font]

[font=&quot]As you can see, any member actively participating at the local level would have had ample time to review and provide input into the process – before it was sent to the membership as a ballot. In addition, members who are interested in CLSA operations, but are not attending Chapter meetings, have opportunity to follow the activities of CLSA on the Members Only website. There is a link to “Board of Directorsâ€￾ where minutes are posted. The minutes include the proposed bylaws.[/font]

[font=&quot]Since the bylaws were approved in April, what took so long to get the ballot out to the membership?[/font]
[font=&quot]It takes a significant amount of time to prepare a mailed ballot. In addition to preparing the proposed bylaws amendments, which included two years of proposals and changes, there was also a very detailed ballot prepared. And, as mentioned previously, contrary to the comments on the Discussion Board, there was no rush to amend the bylaws.[/font]

[font=&quot]I have heard that CLSA leadership censors members and that directing comments to the Board of Directors is futile given all the censorship that goes on. Is CLSA censoring members?[/font]
[font=&quot]The accusation of censorship is blatantly false. There is no censorship of any kind going on and there never has been any censorship. Further, in any case of removal of a post, the original starter of a “threadâ€￾ has been notified. Any removal of posts on the discussion board had to do with anti-trust concerns or the posting of other people’s work product. A simple review of the current comments on the discussion board is a great indication of the outright lack of censorship. [/font]

[font=&quot]Further, the CLSA Board of Directors has never refused to review a comment or suggestion from a member. [/font]

[font=&quot]I have heard that CLSA is not “transparentâ€￾ and CLSA does not report actions to the members.[/font]
[font=&quot]Board minutes, Executive Committee minutes, Annual Financial report and Summary of Major Actions of the Board of Directors are published on the CLSA Members Only website. Certain matters, such as employment issues and legal matters are required to be handled confidentially. However, topics discussed and decisions made by the CLSA Board and Committees are not held as confidential unless there is a compelling business reason to do so.[/font]

[font=&quot]I have heard that CLSA does not comply with federal laws regarding conflict of interest and whistleblower policies. In fact, I heard that CLSA “refusesâ€￾ to adopt these polices. Is that true?[/font]
[font=&quot]CLSA complies with all federal mandated laws. CLSA does have a Conflict of Interest policy which has been adopted by the Board of Directors. A whistleblower policy is not required and CLSA has yet to adopt one. However, CLSA has never “refusedâ€￾ to adopt a whistleblower policy. The suggestion of a whistleblower policy is something that just popped up on the Discussion Board recently. There has not been a Board of Directors meeting since the suggestion was posted, and no proposal to adopt a whistleblower policy has been received. [/font]

[font=&quot]Why are some CLSA members, even a few CLSA Directors, being critical of CLSA? [/font]
[font=&quot]In short, some members have difficulty accepting the decisions of the majority. The CLSA Board is required by its own Bylaws and by California Corporations laws to act democratically, by majority vote (or sometimes higher thresholds, if required by the Bylaws). Most board members agree to abide in the decisions of the majority. Some board members, however, have difficulty accepting the decisions of the majority, and insist on things being done the way they want them done despite the democratic vote(s) of the Board. These leaders sometimes attack the decisions of the Board after the fact, and make inaccurate and unsupported claims that CLSA is corrupt, negligent or acting unlawfully. This conduct is unfortunate as it sometimes results in wasting the Board’s time, or undue effort and expense for the Board to try to correct the record and make what it believes is the right thing happen.[/font]

[font=&quot]The fact is that the vast majority of CLSA directors, each of which is a devoted and careful leader, each of which is subject to fiduciary duties of care and loyalty, and each of which voted to support the proposed bylaws changes. These same directors diligently oversee CLSA activities and operations. In short, the CLSA Board is doing its job carefully, and is deserving of each member’s support. [/font]
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Post by mpallamary »

I have heard the same things and it is evident the members have questions for good reason.
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Post by mpallamary »

Who is Stanmyron?
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Post by marois »

Who is Land Butcher?

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Post by dedkad »

They should add another question: Why have I not received a ballot?
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Post by Administrator »

Thank you dedkad for your question.

Why haven't I received a ballot?
The ballots were mailed to voting members (corporate members in good standing) on August 6th. The ballots were mailed out by standard "bulk" mail. The Post Office indicates that bulk mail delivered within the state generally takes 4-8 business days. However, it has been reported that the bulk mailing has taken quite a bit of time to reach members.

If you have not received your ballot yet it is possible that either we have an incorrect address on file or the Post Office has lost the mail. Please contact the Central Office and a new ballot will be mailed via first-class mail.
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Anonymity

Post by mpallamary »

Thank you for your reply StanMyron. It is as expected and it confirms what many of us thought. We know who you are.
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Post by TTaylor »

Give up the charade Stanmyron, aka Crissy Wilson and/or Dorothy.
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Post by TTaylor »

And yet, Crissy/Dorothy you choose to attack me personally and communicate partial information about me and my character while trying to push me aside from having an opinion on the current proposals.

You also attacked Mister Palamary in an unprofessional manner.

So, I find it laughable after your behavior yesterday on many posts , Crissy/Dorothy, that you are now stating that who writes a comment is not important - just the comments. I am not impressed by your current subterfuge of [posting comments under the user name "stanmyron".
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Post by marois »

TTaylor wrote:Give up the charade Stanmyron, aka Crissy Wilson and/or Dorothy.
That's just ******* insulting!

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Post by Administrator »

TTaylor I can assure you that Dorothy, Crissy, or anyone at the Central Office is not StanMyron.

Dorothy, Crissy, and the Central Office are not involved with the Stanmyron posts in any way, shape or form.
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Post by TTaylor »

I do not believe at all that you are not involved with the Stanmyron posts in any way, shape or form.
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Post by bryanmundia »

I will remember this day as the day the CLSA forum officially died. Although understandable, it is a shame that no one can be trusted on this forum. Shows the true character of the profession from the highest ranks down.
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Post by TTaylor »

Trust me, I see through your parsing of the language. I have no doubt that "verifiable deniability" is in play for AMS. Which means that you are some one that is doing the "heavy lifting".

When I look at the posts from newly minted forum member, stanmyron, and the detailed knowledge they have on CLSA stuff as well as facebook pages, I come to inescapable conclusion that AMS is involved with stanmyron.

If not, I request that Stan Myron reveal himself on this forum, or submit his contact information to an impartial person for verification of whom this person is that is causing so many problems on this forum.
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Post by SPMPLS »

I have been part of this profession for almost 28 years (licensed) and I don't ever recall witnessing anything remotely close to as embarrassing as what has transpired here. I don't know how Mr. Mundia defines the highest ranks of our profession, but I personally take offense to this statement:

"Shows the true character of the profession from the highest ranks down."

I personally know dozens of professional land surveyors who I would consider to be in that category (by my definition, which isn't reliant on holding an esteemed position with CLSA) and none of them have been involved in this travesty. However, the fact that some of the recognized leaders of our profession have chosen to use a public forum dedicated to the exchange of information among "professionals" to conduct this childish diatribe is appalling, at least to me.

I am not a CLSA member and haven't been for more than 30 years. However, I have supported CLSA in many ways and the people I have worked with know how I have done that.

I have nothing to gain by making this post, which I rarely have ever done on this forum. But, I could no longer sit on the sidelines and watch this ugly mess unfold without saying something. Go ahead and attack me folks. It will not bother me one iota, because I like to believe that I am a "Professional" Land Surveyor and have conducted myself in an honorable manner since the day my letter came in the mail in January, 1987. You do not have to be a Director in CLSA to contribute to our profession in valuable ways. However, whether a Director, member, former officer, or otherwise, engaging in this pitiful display of "unprofessionalism" is doing nothing positive for what we all worked very hard to become.

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Post by SPMPLS »

Mr. Myron,

I have provided no commentary or opinion regarding the validity of either side of this argument, nor shall I. As a non CLSA member I have not earned the right to do so, but I would not do so on this forum even if I was a lifetime member. I have simply expressed my opinion regarding how this has been handled by the people who have engaged in this "travesty" on a public forum, you included. However, I will say this - at least we know who the other parties are and Mr. Pallamary and Mr. Taylor both know me and I respect both of them greatly, as I do all my professional peers. However, we have no idea who you are, despite allegations being made about who you "might" be. I proudly signed my post and I shall do so again. As far as my becoming a member of CLSA, well, after watching this, I think I'll just continue to contribute to this noble profession in the manner I have chosen to for many years. I have been blessed by what this profession has given me, professionally and personally, and I embrace the opportunities I have to pay that forward as much as I can. Anyone who knows me, well, they can speak for me. I have no need or desire to say more.

Respectfully,

Scott P. Martin, PLS 5684
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Let's move forward...

Post by Rob_LS »

Well, there goes a couple of years of effort encouraging membership to a high contributing non-member... Scott, if you reconsider at some time in the future, your membership would certainly help advance the Association... In the mean time, I hope your valuable contributions continue... Thank you.

Hopefully all CLSA members will consider the bylaws issue clarification above and really THINK about the proposed changes. Compare the proposed to current. Consider the committee members who made the original proposed revisions, the Directors who reviewed the proposed changes, suggested additional revisions, ultimately approving the bylaws that you have in front of you for ratification by YOU, the voting membership of CLSA, and the Executive Committee members who kept the process moving over the last couple of years and ask yourself "Are all (or 2/3) of these licensed professionals involved in some grand conspiracy?" I think you will arrive at the answer "No" to that question. After that, I hope you will cast a well considered vote.

The power to move this organization forward is in the hands of the voting membership (PLS & Pre-82 CE). It is up to each and every one of us to improve the profession for ourselves, and for those who follow in our footsteps...
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Post by TTaylor »

Reveal yourself, Stan Myron!!
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Post by 7702 »

A person of honor does not hide behind a cloak of anonymity while directing aspersions at their fellow association members. That is a tactic reserved for cowards and whether censored or not on this forum is inexcusable and reprehensible conduct. Honest people shouldn't have to resort to or condone this behavior.

I would hope that the CLSA leaders recognize that and do everything within their power to distance this organization from the likes of such tactics.

Respectfully signed,
Mark Moore, LS 7702
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Post by BeachBum »

Thanks Everyone,

I've enjoyed the lively debates of all. I have to admit, I have not been a diligent member of CLSA for sometime due to personal reasons, so when I received my ballot, and looked at the discussions, it required me to do my due diligence and not just vote on a whim.

I know there are plenty of members that are similar to me, so I hope they do their own due diligence.

Thanks again for the discussions, it brought my thoughts down from the clouds.
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Post by mpallamary »

Cui bono.
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Post by BeachBum »

Cui bono.
I would say for the benefit of the entire organization (I know ... a none answer)! I would really say about 50/50. I don't think the BOD are being malicious in their attempt to change some things, but I also see validity in your argument and understand you constantly asking for answers.

My perspective, personally, I expect those who I supervise, to question my decisions at all times. Why? Several reasons; 1st - It keeps me honest, 2nd - this makes it so that I have a clue as to the reason why I have made my decision, 3rd - hopefully those underneath me will continue to learn and surpass me, and possibly contribute to our profession, 4th - It keeps all options open, not allowing me to be close minded but remain honest and open.

As a young pup, my elders used to beat it in my brain -"Youngster, whatever you do, don't conform"

So with that in mind, I also asked how would this benefit CLSA as a whole, and help the entire group of volunteer members along with the Profession. Hopefully that gives you a little insight as to what I liked and disliked in the ballot!
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Who's who?

Post by 7702 »

7702, You and I have both been in the room during CLSA functions and when I voiced my opinions, thoughts, comments, concerns, etc. you never once stood up and demanded that I state my name. You never once called me a coward? And I never heard you say that to anyone else in the room and I seriously doubted that you knew everyone's name that was in attendance. Why does it matter so much to you? Isn't it enough that you are seeing my name in my login and that I am a member of CLSA?

My name is right there in my login. I've grown accustomed to it after all this time. Why does one need to know a name to respect the other individual and their viewpoint? Is there a possibility that because you and others can't quite place who I am that you are limited in applying your biases to what I say? Why should that matter?

Mr. Myron?,

You're right, your name is not important. What's important is who you are representing and what your agenda is, so we can form an educated opinion of what your "biases" might be. Would you be comfortable making important decisions or voting on critical matters based on information from unknown sources? I'm not.

At the moment you seem to be the spokesperson for CLSA, ableit in a somewhat condescending and disrespectful fashion. If the CLSA directors are comfortable to just sit back and let you defend them, them the organization really does need to take a closer look at how their affairs are being run.
Mark Moore, LS 7702
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Frankly my dear I don't give a damn

Post by dmi »

I do not care if you share your real identity. No one owes you anything. If anything is owed, I would suggest that Stan is the one who owes the rest of the posters on this board courtesy and respect.

I would suggest that in order to have your posts taken seriously that a certain amount of personal responsibility is in order. If you look to all the leading lights who post here THEY ALL POST UNDER THEIR REAL NAMES.

I like discussing issues with people who are proud of themselves and their accomplishments and who are not afraid to personally take responsibility for the content of their posts here.
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Good vs. Bad

Post by 7702 »

Or is it just simply since I have a different viewpoint than you do, I must be the "bad" guy and be siding with the "other side".
Mr. Myron,

I'm not sure who's "side" I'm on right now. Aren't we all supposed to be on the same side?

And I don't think you're a bad guy at all, but your delivery certainly has some room for improvement. I'm not very tactful either at times, so you are not alone in that regard.

I appreciate hearing your side of the story. I'm just trying to make sense of all this stuff and I want to know the truth. (and yes, I can handle the truth).

Respectfully,
Mark Moore, LS 7702
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