Cal Trans Right of Way - El Camino Real street monuments

[btaylor]

This one is a different twist for me than the usual coastal areas where there are "C" monuments that people seem to feel were not set with precision, and you have a lot of space to deal with.

El Camino Real in San Mateo has brass disks in cast iron casings/sleeves. El Camino Real of course has existed much longer than those monuments, so it is not clear to me if I am supposed to hold those as controlling.

The block I am working in is over 100 years old and surveyors have split the old improvements that date near to the time of the subdivision. I can get on a good resolution with occupation and other surveyors marks of record, but it will create a half-foot overlap with El Camino per the Caltrans disks. I do not feel I should be holding to those disks, but it is unclear to me how the State would view this if for some reason they are doing street improvement work and it would seem obvious they would use their monuments. If one were to hold to their monuments it would make my clients 70' wide lot more like 69.5' wide.

Their right of way maps show graphically the right of way matching the right of way of record - i.e. the lot line. The deed calls to the lot and block. There is no call to anything that could make me constrain things to the right of way as monumented.

[Dave Ryan]

Unless the subdivision map shows that the highway R/W is controlling or if there are other indications in the record the highway is a controlling call, the map holds. Do highway field books show finding old subdivision monuments? Hold seniority. If you choose to do otherwise, write up your justification and read it back to yourself. Are you convinced?

[LA Stevens]

Brian,

I have seen many bad Caltrans retracement surveys that were conducted in District 4. Many of the Right of Way Engineer's that derived the boundaries had no clue about proper retracement. The Right of Way engineers were not Land Surveyors in District 4, prior to the 1990. You still need to research their records and determine how they derived the right of way. Many times the monumentation map or the right of way map will mention the HC map. The HC maps will typically show what they held for the right of way and what they found that they did not accept.

If you get the maps, email me a copy and I'll give you some additional insights of what they were doing. I worked for CT for 8 years.

[btaylor]

Thanks guys. Larry I will shoot an email off to you. I believe the HC reference is small print at the bottom right of the right of way map.

Some right of way maps I have seen on the coast show monuments found within the blocks so you get an idea that they are resolving based on something. In this area I would expect them to have tied to curbs on the other side of the block to resolve the right of way, but since I am finding them a half-foot off I am doubtful that is what happened in this area.

[dmi]

when were the brass disks set? How were they set? Were they set from common control that would be the same as that used for the subdivision? You probably need a lot more records research in order to form your opinion? What happens if you develop the block from the brass disks as opposed to splitting the curbs? Why would you place the entire shortage in you parcel and not spread it out over the entire block? Is there evidence that the adjoiners have lived with , relied upon the brass disks?

[btaylor]

Do not know specific age of the disks but likely from the 1960s. I emailed two people at Caltrans to see if I can get specifics about dates and how they were set. I cannot form an opinion about them other than I have my doubts.

Curbs are from early 1900s. There are no original monuments other than using those. Any retracement maps of record on block do not show ties to the monuments, and are going off curb splits and cut cross evidence.

Therefore, using Caltrans monuments and prorating the half-foot across the block would be de-facto calling off those surveys and improvements (block wall fits right on the property line as I have it, without using Caltrans/proration) and it seems highly unwise when I find the discrepancy to be targeted right at my lot. I am not buying into the Caltrans monuments without some better evidence as to how they were set.

[dmi]

As I understand it you have found a resolution that works and is in harmony with older evidence and surveys in your block, but it does not fit newer monuments set to mark the right of way for El Camino.I suggest preparing your mapped opinion and send it to Caltrans for their review and comment, just as you would for an adjoining private property owner. While there is no AP against the State, the state may be estopped from claiming a different location for their right of way once the right of way has been established.






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[PLS7393]

Caltrans often will show monumentation on their Appraisal Maps too. When requesting mapping from Caltrans, it is best to request "Right of Way Maps" and "Appraisal Maps", as well as the "Hard Copy" (HC) maps if I recall the meaning of HC.