Double standard in private vs govt pensions

[land butcher]

If you are in any form of private pension plan your pensions can be cut if the plan is not solvent but if you are in a government employee pension plan, which all are underfunded, your pensions cannot be cut. Is that fair?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nat ... /92909734/

[William Magee]

I hear Caltrans is hiring. According to Tom it sounds like the smart choice for those young folks looking to start their careers.

[Peter Ehlert]

land butcher: no, it is not "fair".
all promises should be honored.

[William Magee]

I know I came across as insensitive, but I don't see blaming the security of public backed pension plans as being counter to the risk of investing one's career in the private sector. And I admit I was quite misleading. Currently the pension plan for new hires as a surveyor for the state is pretty minimal. It is not at all the lucrative benefit it once was and is no where near enough for a future career employee to retire on.

[dmi]

It seems to me that we have two opinions. One go to work for the government with their lavish benefits and pay. Two demand the same thing in the private sector. I vote for elevating private sector wages and benefits to what Teddy Roosevelt called for 113 years.....Anyway I am not sure this is the proper forum for political discuss that is not related to the practice of land surveying in California.

[land butcher]

This retirement tax affects every private surveyor whether he works for someone or owns a business. No different than new safety rules, such as the unions wanting a minimum of 2 man crews.

Diversity prevents a lot of qualified persons from obtaining government positions. Due to CalTrans diversity requirement I and 4 other surveyors, 2 with 10 years with the company, were laid off while minority apprentices were kept on.

My son lost track of the number of govt jobs he applied for without success after graduating with an honors degee in Civil Engineering and over 3 years of land surveying experience prior to college.

Many in the pubic sector have no idea of the difference between the pubic and private sector.

See my post in this thread Why CA is billions of dollars in debt

[dmi]

No I am not going to waste a fraction of a second reading the BS in Why CA is Billions in debt. I find it tiresome when people complain as if they are the only people taxed and they are the only people regulated. You were probably laid off not because you are white but because you had a shitty attitude. if you son is anything like you it is likely he was not hire for the same reason and not because of reverse discrimination. I suggest that you vote for Trump he will cure what ails you.

[David Kendall]

You were probably laid off not because you are white but because you had a shitty attitude.

Government workers can't be let go on that basis Dane. Union protects them. Besides, how could anyone have a poor attitude when they are given 40 or 50 paid days off work every year?

[dedkad]

You were probably laid off not because you are white but because you had a shitty attitude.

Government workers can't be let go on that basis Dane. Union protects them. Besides, how could anyone have a poor attitude when they are given 40 or 50 paid days off work every year?

Surprisingly, poor attitudes run rampant at Caltrans. At least they used to 20 years ago when I worked there. That's why I had to leave. I told myself that I was too young to be this bitter. Best decision I ever made. However, I don't know where you came up with that quantity of paid days off. Those with 20 years experience might get around 44 days a year off (6 weeks vacation plus 14 holidays), but most only get about 24 to 29 days off (2 to 3 weeks vacation plus 14 paid holidays).

And not sure about Land Butcher's statement about them choosing minorities over seniority when it comes to layoffs. I heard plenty of talk about layoffs while I was there and it was always based on seniority in your particular classification. Those in higher classifications, were offered the chance to step down to a lower classification to retain their job if they had more seniority over those lower level employees, so I'm sure if Land Butcher and his co-workers had chosen to step down to apprentice, they would have retained their jobs and the others would have been out.

[Peter Ehlert]

step down to apprentice? I doubt it would be possible.
back in the day Operating Engineers #3 had Journeyman/Apprentice ratios mandated.
4th person, 9th person, etc.
after a few weeks of 4 crew chiefs remaining in the field section the Union Rep. stooped by.
OOPS!
I was #4, and I was laid off so they could enlist an apprentice... but none was hired. The employer actually wanted to keep us 4 working until work picked up again.

[dedkad]

Peter, don't even get me started on unions! The people I knew at Caltrans who stepped down a level were civil engineers. Different union, I guess.

[Civil Engineer]

Land surveyors, please focus on elevating the profession. Land surveyor compensation is not commensurate with similar professions--it should be higher. Also, most land surveyors public and private are diligent, hardworking employees.

[JasonCamit]

https://calpensions.com/2016/11/07/why- ... -stockton/

Not all books read the same.

[PE_PLS]

Excellent article Jason.

Because City of Fresno doesn't pay high pensions, the pension system is solvent and actually has a surplus! And amazingly, the city of Fresno doesn't have much trouble filling positions, even though the neighboring Fresno County promises higher pensions (and has an unfunded billion dollar pension liability).

Promise less = Save more = remain solvent. So simple, even my 7 year old can understand it.

[Dave Karoly, PLS]

I have a friend, unfortunately recently deceased at age 90, he had a pension from Chevron which he received for decades. He lived very well.

Let's go back to that system; it worked very well. Don't say we don't have the money, large corporations are sitting on record troves of cash. They could do it, if they had a social conscience.

[Peter Ehlert]

well Dave, there will never be a "social conscience", it is business.
This is the one single thing we have Government for, to protect the People.
Somehow, somebody is missing the boat.
Q: can pension funds be wiped thru bankruptcy?
Q: can mergers etc. disable a pension fund?
small business or big business it should not mater.

[Dave Karoly, PLS]

Peter, I think they used to; granted a lot of that was achieved by literal shooting wars between the Company Ginks and Unions prior to the Great Depression. Maybe the 1940s through the 1960s were just an aberration and the golden era is over.

I'm pretty sure more than one airline was able to erase pension obligations through bankruptcy. But in California they can't erase government pensions through bankruptcy because they are part of total compensation, something you get for working here. Don't get me wrong, the best part of my job is not the pay or the pension or the fringes, it's the job, a fun, interesting and at times crazy job.

[land butcher]

I apologize for omitting part of this statement
"Diversity prevents a lot of qualified persons from obtaining government positions. Due to CalTrans diversity requirement I and 4 other surveyors, 2 with 10 years with the company, were laid off while minority apprentices were kept on. We were employed by a private firm subcontracted to the general contractor to provide survey services on a CalTrans project."

Over the years I have seen the demographics of govt agencies, mostly engrg and planning depts change, along with this change is a lack of complete plan/map checking. Red marking things on the 3 or 4th check that have been there since first submittal seems to be the norm these days. When I plan and map checked for a local agency very few maps or plans required more than 3 submittals. One engineer I know that has been in the business many years recently spent over 2 years and numerous plan checks to remove a dwy and replace it with full height curb/gutter and sidewalk within State hwy ROW on a old gas station site now something else.

DMI be glad to meet you anytime and discuss my attitude.

[land butcher]

https://calpensions.com/2016/11/07/why- ... -stockton/

Not all books read the same.

I give credit to the City of Fresno, too bad CA and most of it's counties and cities cannot have the same responsibility to it's taxpayers.

[Cody Hustead]

I apologize for omitting part of this statement
"Diversity prevents a lot of qualified persons from obtaining government positions. Due to CalTrans diversity requirement I and 4 other surveyors, 2 with 10 years with the company, were laid off while minority apprentices were kept on. We were employed by a private firm subcontracted to the general contractor to provide survey services on a CalTrans project."

Over the years I have seen the demographics of govt agencies, mostly engrg and planning depts change, along with this change is a lack of complete plan/map checking. Red marking things on the 3 or 4th check that have been there since first submittal seems to be the norm these days. When I plan and map checked for a local agency very few maps or plans required more than 3 submittals. One engineer I know that has been in the business many years recently spent over 2 years and numerous plan checks to remove a dwy and replace it with full height curb/gutter and sidewalk within State hwy ROW on a old gas station site now something else.

DMI be glad to meet you anytime and discuss my attitude.

I'm sure all our non white-male colleagues would like to know to which demographic you are referring.